July 06, 2004

It's all about the HATE

I received a response from Mr. Herman of CubaExchange.org regarding my email to him posted in the Pioneros Amricanos entry.

I'll will just post the entire email as I responded line by line (Mr. Herman's quotes are in italics):

Tom,

I found it easier to respond to your response on a line by line basis.

Thanks for your perspective. I think you might be surprised by many of the answers to your questions. Although they seem rhetorical in so far as it seems like you think you already know the answers...

Tom, I dont know all the answers nor do I pretend to know them. I do know that while you may do a world of good for your American students, these trips can be detrimental to Cuban students. Not solely because of the money spent in Cuba which furthers the communist system, but once you and your students leave their lives go back to the status quo and then they, and you and your students, are used as propaganda to show the world the wonders of cuba's communist system.

First, our students start in Miami where they engage with the local Cuban community to learn about the Cuban-American perspective. They visit a radio station, meet families at a community center, and generally prepare for their trip.

Your website made no mention of this. I am curious as to what radio station and community center is visited. I would also love to witness such visits if at all possible.

There is no question that we do not live in an ideal world, but certainly there is no better way to learn about both the good and the bad about Cuban then by seeing it first hand. Obviously everyone has a different perspective and most of our students go to Cuba with a negative perspective on Castro.

Every time a tourist or student travels to Cuba, Fidel Castro and his regime are afforded more money to maintain its power over the people. What is the student's perspective on Castro like once they leave?

As for the mis-naming of our program, there is an exchange of values and ideals. They may not be your ideas and values, but they are values and ideals. Apparently you'd be surprised what some of the teenagers that our group meets thinks about their country and our country. You may think that Cuba is currently a terrible place under Castro (this may be true), I think that our country (USA) is a terrible place under our war monger president. At least Castro is only killing innocents in his own country. Bush is killing innocents here and abroad.

(emphasis mine)
Your program is mis-named. The mere fact that Cuban students aren't allowed to come to the US on a par with American students traveling there proves this. There really is no equal "exchange" of ideals. Send 25 students from Cuba here to the states without repercussions to their families should they want to stay and I guarantee you that most if not all would stay in a heartbeat.

I certainly hope you do not use the term "warmonger" in your class or with your students when referring to the President of the United States. He is the president of your country and thus merits respect, regardless of your opinion on him. And I hardly think that liberating the people of Iraq from a sadistic murderous tyrant can be construed as "warmongering." You should definitely read a few of the Iraqi bloggers if you think for one moment that they are not glad the US did the morally correct thing to do and remove Saddam from power.

Saying that Cuba "may be" a terrible place under Castro is not only an understatement, but a reflection of your political inclination. Comparing the atrocities commited by Castro's regime with Bush's invasion of Iraq is unsubstantiated standard leftist boilerplate argument. If you truly believe that Bush is purposely killing innocents here and abroad, there is no hope for you of understanding reality. I truly believe you are a socialist.

Again, in your immediate jumping to conclusions, you failed to ask if we DO have Cubans come to the United States as part of this CubaExchange and in fact we do. We run a summer camp and we have students and staff here from all around the world every summer. Last summer we represented more than 30 countries including Cuba.

Just how many Cuban students did you have? And were they actually from Cuba or were they kids from Cuban diplomats and such stationed outside the island?

Of course you are correct that people in Cuba need to be careful about what they say. Especially publicly and in front of a video camera, but you might be happy to hear what some of our American students said in a very outspoken way about the Castro dictatorship. This was at least a chance for the Cuban students to hear that perspective.

For all your study of the Cuban culture and language, I think you have no idea of the Cuban heart and mentality. Im sure a good portion of the Cuban students were listening to those outspoken comments from the American students and thinking "Yeah. You re right, Castro sucks. You can say it, but I cant. Why dont you shut up and just help me?"

Our students DO go out and do agricultural service in the country side. They do it with the Cuban students.

And you find no problem with this? You find no problem with compulsory agricultural service for children???? They are kids, Tom, not slaves.

In fact our students did bring the US Constitution and did discuss the 1st amendment and there was no problem w/ our faculty or with the Cuban faculty that joined us.

When you discussed the first ammendment, was there any mention of the 75 journalists currently serving time in Castro's prisons? Did you explain to these Cuban students that the encarceration of a journalist for political reasons is something that would never, ever happen in the states? I highly doubt it.

As for the tuition, most of it goes to us. This is a very profitable program for us... Capitalism, I guess, but the cost of housing and other services from the Ministry of Education is a great bargain for us. As to the inequality of what our wealthy American students pay compared with what a Cuban father might earn in 5 years, you're right it's a terrible in justice. It's not unique to Cuba though. George Bush has made a policy of increasing the disparity between the haves and the have nots. Bush himself said to the wealthy patrons at a recent fundraiser, "There are the have's and the have nots, some call you the have-more's, but I call you my base." Poverty in Cuba has as much to do with George Bush and our American system as it does with Castro.

You keep mentioning George Bush in this conversation and I want to point out, once again, that this isnt about George Bush. It's about Cuba. Cuba was doomed to poverty back on January 1st, 1959. Stop blaming the world's ills on George Bush, Tom. You know this simply is not true. It's pathetic, especially coming from a teacher. George Bush has money. So what. He inherited it. So what. John Kerry MARRIED into it. I dont know of a more pathetic and unmanly way to get rich than that. Please, keep Bush out of it.

As if it's Bush's fault that Fidel Castro pays his slaves a meager wage. Sheesh.

Dont you find it a bit hypocritical of you to be stating that Bush is "a have" and in the same paragraph say that your program is very profitable for you? I do.

As far as taking a day away from the classroom, I am NEVER in the classroom. Our educational programs are 100% experiential. They never happen in the classroom. There is a large amount of reading in our Cuba Reader that covers prisons, politics, prostitution, and more. All the students read this before they go to Cuba so they have a broad perspective for their experience.

I would love to read one of your readers to see exactly what it is that's discussed in reference to these subjects. A cursory view at best Im sure.

The emphasis is not Salsa, although that is a wonderful cultural heritage that all Cubans both here and in Cuba can be proud of. Like Reggae, it has had a profound influence on world music. This has nothing to do with Bush or Castro. There's no reason to be down on or negative about Cuban music.

Trust me Tom, I can dance circles around your best dancer. I grew up with 7 aunts, and if you ever dance with one, you have to dance with all of them. What you fail to understand here is that this music, this cuban rythm, is one of the last exports Fidel Castro has in order to bring money, via sales and tourism, to Cuba. How come noone ever heard of Cuban music back when the Soviets subsidized Castro?

The emphasis of the program, if there is one, is Spanish Language acquisition. Again, nothing political about this. Spanish is one of the 3 most important languages in the world today.

Spanish can be learned in many places other than Cuba. You do not need to travel to a communist nation in order to learn a language. As a matter of fact, Cuban Spanish is not even proper spanish, its a dialect. You would do your students better if you took them to Spain.

I'm not sure why you think we promote Castro's agenda. I personally don't, I don't think a single one of our students has ever come back from Cuba with positive feelings about Castro, but rather with the realization that there are many, many wonderful people in Cuba yearning for freedom. That is what I learned when I visited.

I think you promote Castro's agenda because you travel to the island and spend dollars there. This props up not just Castro, but will enable his successor to maintain the dogmatic grip on the people of Cuba. Something else that is lost on you completely is that you allow yourself and your students to be part and parcel of Castro's propaganda machine. Every single time a group a students from the US travels to Cuba, it is headlined in Granma International, Castro's party rag. The education system in Cuba lauds itself by using you. I ask you, what good is 100% literacy if you cant read anything and everything you want?

Maybe you and I disagree on the best way to achieve this, but I don't think isolation worked in China and I don't think it's the best, fastest, or most effective way of changing Cuba either.

This is a common misconception you make here. When Castro came into power, he nationalized all American businesses and removed all American interests from the island. This is what Fidel Castro wanted, this is what he got. And now that he doesnt have the Soviets backing him up economically and militarily we are all supposed to feel sorry for him? Boohoo.

In any case, I think you and I have the same ultimate goal for Cuba. Freedom and freedom from Castro.

Same goal, perhaps. But supplying Castro with more dollars certainly isnt going to get you there.

Instead of insulting me and suggesting that I am immoral, maybe you could make some suggestions for how we could improve our program. Our organization is committed to learning by traveling to other countries and having foreigners visit us here. Cuba is a country that badly needs our attention.

Forgive me if I insulted you, but your "despite Bush" comment insulted me. I was brought up to respect my president. Like I said, your organization is pretty perfect in an ideal world, but in some cases, such a Cuba's, you do more harm than good.

Thanks for your dialogue,

BTW, how did you find me in order to send me the original email?

Now, I responded line by line to each of his points and I recieved only this afterwards:

I have no responsibility to respect our president any more than any Cuban has any responsibility to respect Castro. GW strikes me as a blathering idiot. He stole the election in 2000, I didn't vote for him, he's been terrible for the vast majority of the population of this country. And, he's a liar on important matters that go way beyond Clinton's blowjobs. Finally, you MUST agree that there is NOTHING unpatriotic about not liking your country's leader. You were "brought up to respect your president". Is that what you think Cubans in Cuba should do too? Respect Fidel because he's their president? I found you on google.

So you see, it isnt about teaching high school kids about Cuban culture and language and politics. It's all about hatred for GW Bush and adoration for Fidel Castro. That's what it all comes down to in the end.

I told Mr. Herman to look for me at Miami International Airport on his cubaexchange departure date. I will be the one leading the protest, because as a Cuban I must, and as an American I can.

Thanks to Steve,Zomby, Michele, Jay, Sharp as a Marble, and TC for helping spread the word.

Posted by Val Prieto at July 6, 2004 04:48 PM |

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Comments

Fidel is worth what, $300 million? And he's worried about W's paltry $13 million?

He can't take the kids to South Central LA, Pilsen in Chicago, NY, TX or AZ to learn Spanish?

I don't read Derbyshire, but the shoe fits:

Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy free health care and 100 percent literacy."
- John Derbyshire


And Fidel only kills his own citizens? Since when? The man is ignorant not only of current events - Venezuela, but the last 40 years? Who does he think Hugo's muscle is besides the Libyans?

IIRC, Angola, Grenada?

Can't Cuba trade w/the world? Then why is it poor? Why does it need the US?

Did this "teacher" follow the US Librarian Association dust-up the last 2 years?

--

As to "stealing" the election, Castro gets 100% of the vote, that's not stealing?

And he didn't read "Deadlock" by the political staff of the WP, either, I see, and I think we can agree the WP doesn't exactly lean right.

Posted by: Sandy P at July 6, 2004 05:06 PM

You might consider contacting ProtestWarrior.com to see if they have a Miami group to help out with the protest you plan.

Nicely done, again.

Posted by: J at TAotB at July 6, 2004 05:22 PM

That's one deluded angry man, that Mr. Herman is. Your responses are beyond perfect.

P.S. Michele sent me.

Posted by: Faith at July 6, 2004 05:24 PM

I posted links to both articles: http://www.theartoftheblog.com/the_art_of_the_blog/archives/001212.php

(I entered this as a comment because my trackback pings aren't working.)

Posted by: J at TAotB at July 6, 2004 05:27 PM

Oh my gosh. Liberal nut job panders to fidel on the backs of well-paying children...
That no classroom thing was a major tip off.


I see they charge 5,000. each for this little jaunt. July 15 - August 11, 2004. Oh, yeah. They'll be coming through Miami. :/

Posted by: pam at July 6, 2004 05:41 PM

despite Bush
You should read this again. I think he answered and explains his program well. shows just how this type of exchange is important.
Your just some kind of Isolationist
Just waived off the China connection. You want to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviets? But today Russia is this > I guess I'm not alone.

Madtom

Posted by: tom at July 6, 2004 06:04 PM

despite Bush
You should read this again. I think he answered and explains his program well. shows just how this type of exchange is important.
Your just some kind of Isolationist
Just waived off the China connection. You want to do to Cuba what we did to the Soviets? But today Russia is this close to a failed state, and is sliding right back to dictatorship. While China has a growing economy with calls for political reform coming from within. Even if you can argue the fat lady, I would rather send Cuba on the road to China.
I guess I'm not alone.

Madtom //Take 2

Posted by: tom at July 6, 2004 06:08 PM

heyt Madtom, you told me you were from Cuba, where abouts in Cuba are you from, cause I dont believe you.

Posted by: Val Prieto at July 6, 2004 06:18 PM

I'm sure I never told you "where" I was from.
Is this from the GOP handbook? Attack the messenger!!

Madtom

Posted by: tom at July 6, 2004 06:26 PM

Madtom,

Guess this response to an email is my fabrication then right:

Buddy you got me confused with someone else.
I am the most anti-racist person that know and would never say any whiteness
anything
I'm Cuban not white

Madtom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valentin Prieto"
To: "tom"
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: price of freedom

Posted by: Val Prieto at July 6, 2004 06:47 PM

I always marvel at the breed which makes excuses for Communists.

Madtom, you clearly made the claim that people are calling for political reforms in the PRC. Do you really, truly, sincerely believe that they won't end up the way all the protestors in Tienanmen '89 did, all shot dead or ground beneath the treads of tanks? The CCP has been merrily imprisoning, or executing, anyone it perceives as threats to the Party, since the protest--just like it was before.

Posted by: Mike James at July 6, 2004 08:23 PM

Ya gotta love the equivalence. George Bush is the duly elected President of the oldest democracy on the planet. Castro is the ruler of a Communist dictatorship who took power by force and maintains it by brutal repression. But both called President, so all same-same. Both as deserving, or not, of respect.

Feh.

Posted by: DSmith at July 6, 2004 08:35 PM

Mike James,

Did you see the picture of the demonstrations in Hong Kong last week, 10,000 strong, the one's in Taiwan a few month's back. millions strong. Do you realize what it cost China to monitor the Internet? This is a war thier economy will never win for them. Information is a weapon that they will never defeat. They try at there own risk
Did you know that MS is writing the software for the great fire wall of China - ever pay for any MS software you liked?

Madtom

Posted by: tom at July 6, 2004 08:51 PM

Val:

I believe Madtom is well-named. If you read his last two incomprehensible posts, it seems obvious he has dropped his jug.

Also, he seems to have no interest in individual human freedom, and now he wants to talk about China, which, athough it begins with the same letter, is not the same country -- at all -- as Cuba.

Val writes important posts. I hope Madtom doesn't hijack any of them.

Sincerely,
Jerome du Bois

Posted by: Jerome du Bois at July 6, 2004 09:00 PM

As a future teacher, currently doing my undergrad work, I hope that Mr. Herman does not express his political oppinions with his students. It would be irresponsible of him to do so. As teachers we need to give our students the tools they need to learn and let them form their own oppinions. And oppinions like these should only be formed after doing genuine research, not after watching fabricated propaganda like Michael Moore's new film.
And have we all forgotten JFK's Bay of pigs disaster? As far as I'm concerend, that is an example of a democrat deliberately killing people in another country. At least GW has liberated a country in the process.


RE: Madtom

I find it hard to believe that a person of Cuban decent could hold the sentiments that you claim as your own (China Vs. Russia). I wrote Val a while ago discussing my own grandfather and how it pains me to look at him and know that he will die without ever seeing some of the people that he has loved most. This fact has shaped me to believe that the embargo is an anti-Castro measure, not an anti-Cuba measure.

And further, Cuba will never go the way of the Russia for a few simple reasons: Cuba is an island paradise, as soon as tourism is available to US, tourists will flood the island
Also, there are many Cuban-Americans counting the minutes untill they are able to return and reclaim what they consider to be rightfully theirs. There is no doubt that they will be willing to spend a good portion to do so. I know that my father has his savings ready!
And further, Cuba is a producer of luxury goods(coffee, tobacco, sugar, and rum) anyone who follows the stockmarket know that even in times of economic slowdowns, these products continue to do well. As soon as Americans are allowed access to these goods, I'm sure that Cuba will be flooded with the demand needed to give her the financial push start that she will need to avoid the poverty that has plagued Russia.

-Yvette

P.S. Don't take my word for it. I encourage all to do their own research and form their own oppinions!

Posted by: Yvette at July 6, 2004 09:01 PM

Val writes important posts
Jerome du Bois

I agree

Madtom

Posted by: tom at July 6, 2004 09:05 PM

Great Job Val...Great Job.

I;m always amazed at how ignorant of politics, history, and sociology most people are on the liberal left...always amazed.

Posted by: WB at July 6, 2004 09:07 PM

"George Bush is the duly elected President of the oldest democracy on the planet."

Switzerland?!

Posted by: Dave J at July 6, 2004 09:19 PM

This little exchange is a great demonstration of why if my kids will NEVER go to public school if I ever have any. The ranks of educators out there are alot like a box of granola. Lots of fruit, nuts, and flakes. (There are some good ones out there too, but a cursory glance at the NEA agenda seems to point to a majority of granola in the mix.)

Val, keep up the good work.

Posted by: JED at July 6, 2004 09:31 PM

MadTom, I just deleted your last comment and banned you from my site. Play your games somewhere else please.

Posted by: Val Prieto at July 6, 2004 09:48 PM

10,000 strong,???

In Hong Kong?

And here I thought it was 500K.

Posted by: Sandy P at July 7, 2004 02:50 AM

"There are the have's and the have nots, some call you the have-more's, but I call you my base."

Bush said this sarcastically AT A CHARITY FUND RAISER. We've got to fight this propaganda. --s

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/10/18/politics/main242210.shtml

Posted by: j.scott barnard at July 7, 2004 10:05 AM

I guess I'll be protesting too. Do you need to get a permit to do that? Think logistically...

Posted by: j.scott barnard at July 7, 2004 10:09 AM

What a liar.

Posted by: Ral at July 7, 2004 12:01 PM

Val, this makes me sick to my stomach.

Posted by: Keith at July 7, 2004 01:01 PM

Hey Dave J, here are links for you:

http://www.about.ch/history/
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/europe/switzerland/history.htm

While Switzerland declared its independence in 1648 it was not a Constitutional Confederation until 1848 - that would be the time it became like the US.

Also it was invaded in 1798 by the French Republic and had the Helvetic Republic forced upon them. This was not reversed until 1815.


It is a fact that the US Constitution is the oldest founding governing document in the world. No other government in the world has the 220+ years of consistency in structure and implementation that the United States does possess. The USA is not the new kid on the block when it comes to government of, for, and by the people.

Posted by: Voidseeker at July 7, 2004 02:03 PM

Oh great! This is just what American students need. More brainwashing.

That man needs an intellectual enema.

You rock, Val!

Posted by: Da Goddess at July 7, 2004 02:04 PM

Kick ass Val!

If I could be at the protest I would....

This still has me shaking my head-

"As for the tuition, most of it goes to us. This is a very profitable program for us... Capitalism, I guess, but the cost of housing and other services from the Ministry of Education is a great bargain for us. "

A GREAT BARGAIN??? AN ENTIRE COUNTRY ENSLAVED SO HE CAN HAVE A GREAT BARGAIN???

Sorry, this may be a stretch, but you know what else was a GREAT BARGAIN at the time you frigging moonbat?

A 1940's VW.

I hope you choke on your mojito when you get there.

Moron. Gah. I need a smoke. Crap like this drives me insane.

Keep up the good work Val.....Yet another fabulous addition to ye ole blogroll....

Posted by: Tman at July 7, 2004 04:35 PM

OK, Voidseeker, thanks for that, though I hope you realize I was being flip. What about the Most Serene Republic of San Marino, usually described as the oldest and smallest republic in the world?

Great retort, BTW, Val.

Posted by: Dave J at July 7, 2004 05:16 PM

"It is a fact that the US Constitution is the oldest founding governing document in the world."

No, that would actually be the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, which was adopted in 1780. Admittedly, it's been amended 120 times compared to 27 for the federal constitution, but since we're pedantically splitting hairs, I still thought I should mention it. ;-)

Posted by: Dave J at July 7, 2004 05:25 PM

'At least Castro is only killing innocents in his own country. Bush is killing innocents here and abroad'. Well I never thought they would be stupid enough to put that down on paper but yet again they prove how stupid they are. It's part of their odd ability to compartmentalise things to make a dictator look good, Even if you don't counter the Bush is worse than Castro bit, the argument is because X does something worse than Y, Y is a good chap. OK then Pol Pot must be a good chap as both Hitler and Stalin killed more people than he did.

Ohh but the healthcare is good...

Posted by: Ral at July 7, 2004 07:58 PM

Great post Mr. Prieto.

I'm further convinced that a good portion of our 'intellectual' class has completely lost it's marbles.

Their collective slow suicidal balkanization of America is now reduced to a career path for multi-culti's who can now make a comfy capitalist living coddling up to whichever tyrant lets them lick her/his/transgendered boot.

Posted by: Rtfm at July 7, 2004 09:40 PM

I wanted to respond to each of you personally via email but have been having trouble with my mail server.

Thanks for not just a pat in the back, but for standing alongside me in support. You guys are the real deal.

Posted by: Val Prieto at July 8, 2004 07:34 AM

It seems that I may have been misunderstood. When I spoke about a Cuba's economic potential, I didn't mean to suggest that the US should lift the embargo. I was referring to a time when Cuba is liberated. I support the embargo reason being: as I have read of Val's writings, sending money only relieves the symptoms; it does not cure the problems that plague Cuba. Be assured that I agree with Val on most things. In fact, he successfully articulates much of what I so desperately want to say; many times I'm too emotional to do so effectively.
-Yvette
P.S. Val, I wish I could protest along side you. If there is something I can do from LA let me know and I will do my best.

Posted by: Yvette at July 9, 2004 01:02 AM

Being of Cuban descent...right. Can we all now refer to this as pulling a Micah Wright?

Val, I've added you to my favorites list. Great series that exposes the hypocrits. I will be keeping your protest in my thoughts and prayers.

Posted by: Mahatma at July 9, 2004 02:06 PM

Pretty strange all right. I dunno 'bout the rest of this madness but jazz has had a very strong relationship with Cuban music since at least the 50s.

PenGun
Do What Now ???

Posted by: PenGun at July 12, 2004 10:50 PM

"It is a fact that the US Constitution is the oldest founding governing document in the world"

Wow. I think The Magna Carta predates it by just a bit.

PenGun
Do What Now ???

Posted by: PenGun at July 12, 2004 10:54 PM

"MadTom, I just deleted your last comment and banned you from my site. Play your games somewhere else please."

Ahhh that explains the universal approval found here.

PenGun
Do What Now ???

Posted by: PenGun at July 12, 2004 10:57 PM