consider this: the republicans have "no need" to pander (for lack of a better word) to the (die hard)cuban american vote: what are you going to do? vote democrat? not show up? not likely.. they figure they have that vote no matter what.. cuban americans arent typically the type to not show up for elections, they will cast a vote, and they (republican party) may figure whoever has the R next to the name will get the vote no matter what.. for better or worse, "cuba" is not an important topic to the rest of the country, the republican congressman or senator from anywhere north/west of say orlando doesnt need to watch how he votes on issues related to cuban immigration, because the constituency in his area probably isnt a cuban majority like it is in south florida.. the rest of the country (for the most part)doesnt see a difference between "cuban" illegal aliens and "mexican", "honduran" whatever..

Thats exactly my point, daniel. It would be different if there were a chance that Florida could lose both Senate seats to the Democrats. The GOP would be crossing hell or high water to ensure the support of the Cuban American vote to at least maintain one REP senator. Its just not needed this time around.

A big mistake, if you ask me. As the last administration that crossed the Cuban American community before an election year paid for it big time in 2000.

I guess this administration could consider this a win win. they appease the immigration reform conservatives in the red states and lose nothing in return immediately.

Of course, theres always that pesky presidential election in 2008 just around the corner. And cuban elephants have long memories.

Cubans are still considered refugees, which is a different legal status than immigrant. If a Cuban reaches the U.S. he comes under the act signed by Johnson in 1965. That's an entirely different status than a Mexican or Iranian crossing the Rio Grande.

I'm not worried about it yet. Being politicians, though, they could still make a big mess - wet foot/dry foot - even messier.

but even if the seats were threatend, and thinking to 2008, i dont think it would make a difference.. i really think the republicans think the cuban vote is a sure thing: with or without elian, BTTR shootdown, gore wasnt going to get the cuban vote even if he was wearing a guayabera with a gloria cubana cigar sticking out of his pocket, eating pastelitos, singing guantanamera with celia cruz.. all apologies, but i dont think ileana and lincoln have as much sway as they used to when mas-canosa was around.. they dont have the support of fellow republicans on this.. maybe they vote with fellow repubs for return votes on cuba issues, but it doesnt look like it.. the vote is taken for granted because ( remember the long memories you mentioned) of the bay of pigs.. what are you going to do if they decide to end dry foot wet foot and send everyone back? vote democrat? no.. not vote out of protest? no, you know that would help the democrats, face it youre screwed no matter what you do.. if the democrats were smart, theyd jump all over this, but with senior dems like dodd and kennedy, its not likely to happen.. be honest, what cuban american here would vote (or not vote out of protest) in a way that would help the democrats, any democratic party canidate, just to "get back" for dry foot/wet foot repeal that sends all cubans back? i mean, its an empty threat, and the republicans know this.. if youre right, se jodio la baina..

i dont agree daniel. I know quite a few Cubans that voted republican specifically because of the Elian fiasco. I also know quite a few that had voted for Clinton, even twice. if the Cuban American vote can be swayed, a proven fact if you ask me, then the DEMs will do everything they can to lobby for it.

Youd be surprised at the number of Cubans I know that have voted democrat in the past.

As important as it is to us to have our brothers and sisters reach freedom, we have to look at the bigger picture. The immigration policy is out of control. Everytime I go back to Miami, it becomes clear that we have a porous system. I feel a lot less safe when I return to my hometown than I used to. It is much more important that we clamp down on the borders, prosecute employers who hire illegals, and end the practice of having illegal immigrants stay by having "anchor" babies. It doesn't help our brothers and sisters in the gulag, but in time, it just might. The candidate who promises to do something about illegal immigrants will have the inside track to the White House in 2008.

I don't like the sound of this. Wasn't Martinez saying castro's doctors were a good thing? He's going soft. This, by the way, coincides with his low voter approval rating. I had such high hopes for him. Now I am getting suspicious. I agree totally with Val that some unsavory deal may be in the works. There was a US interests section guy who was saying all Cubans should stay home and make their country a better place, or stay home because castro is going to die and communism is going to die with him. Baloney! The thug of Caracas has completely changed that equation.

Some Cubans may vote Democrat, but in enough numbers to hand Florida to Hillary? Hard to see. Let's be honest, most of the immigrant non-Cuban population of Florida skews Democratic and could care less about our issues. Do you think staying home and letting Hildebeast win the White House will improve our lot? Unlikely.

I look at this as the lesser of two evils at at worst. The democratic party has ventured FAR to the left, and is now led by the likes of Michael Moore and Howard Dean. Michael Moore has publicy blasted "Cuban exiles:"
http://www.123cuba.com/Moore-Miami-Cubans.html
So while I would be outraged and extremely pissed off if the policy were changed to the point that our brothers were sent back to Cuba, I could not see myself as voting Democrat - unless something REALLY drastic happens, such as the democrats shifting dramatically to the right.

Very interesting comments by everyone. Juan had a good point about Cubans reaching shore not falling under the same category as Mexicans crossing the border, for example.

I don't think the RNP should take the Cuban-American vote for granted. As Val stated, I know lots of C-A's who have voted Democratic in the past, and would likely do so again if there was a stinker of a Republican candidate (see Kathleen Harris). You'll still see a huge Republican advantage if Hillary is the 2008 Demo candidate, but remember her hubby got a lot of
C-A votes in 1996.

And look how he repaid us!

Val,
I hate to disappoint you, but the "wet foot/dry foot" policy is here to stay for the rest of the Bush Administration. The same applies to not enforcing Titles III and IV of the Helms-Burton Act. These are old Clinton policies that Bush has followed to the letter.
The best example of U.S.-Cuba policies that do not change is the secret Kennedy-Khrushchev understanding of December 1962. It has been ratified by all administrations, whether Democrat or Republican, for the last 43 years.
The U.S. Department of State is just waiting for Castro to die of natural causes within the next decade before they make any substantial policy changes.
If there have been no major changes in the last four decades, one more decade does not matter to the policy makers at the Fourth Floor.
I recall during the eight years of the Reagan presidency the excitement in the Cuban exile community of how Reagan was going to get rid of Castro. I was not fooled by Reagan's anti-Castro rhetoric because it was a repeat of what Nixon fed us during six years, while he had Kissinger secretly negotiating with Castro. Reagan is gone and Castro is still there. I only believe in deeds, not political rhetoric. Let's stop being naive and learn from the examples of the past.

delacova,

My point exactly. Little if anything will be done. But to the Republican party, having the Cuban-American community make a big stink about one thing or another is not a good thing. Dont you remember the media barrage in the run up to the election? All those editorials and articles about the Cuban-American demographic and how the numbers were teetering?

In every serious debate or discussion about illegal immigration and border security "What will we do about the Cubans?" always comes up. How long before we start to get treated like any other "immigrant" group by both parties?

You think we're gonna keep the wet foot/dry foot policy in effect? One of the two parties is gonna need it to get a hold of Florida sonner or later.

To Val, Tony, Robert and all:

Take courage we still have the Cuban Adjustment act.

BTW please go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba and offer input all you have to do is to click the "edit" access and place your thoughts in the text.

take care and be well

Larry

I welcome the news to have illegal immigrants returned to what ever country they come from, as should all Americans. Val's concern that this new policy would also include Cuban immigrants, while understandable, should not be too troubling. The Cuban Adjustment Act must surely omit Cuban refugees from this new proposal, but then again I thought that to be the case before the ridiculous wet foot dry foot policy came into play. But I also question if the Cuban Adjustment Act is a tool that has run its course. I feel it might be time to eliminate that policy and stop allowing Cubans to enter this country as political refugees while they are actually leaving the island for economical reasons as proven by the amount of these same asylum seekers soon afterwards becoming travelers to Cuba. Maybe it is time to allow these people seeking a better life to start demanding it back at home rather then giving them a free pass into the states where lately they would be more incline to demand the right to visit loved ones back on the homeland. Bottom line is, eliminate the illegal wet foot dry foot rule and yes, send back the illegal immigrant, even if at the cost of the new Cuban refugee.
Frank

Free pass? Quite the contrary I'd say.

It's not just the US who decides if Cubans are sent back to Cuba. The Beard also has to agree. There are Cubans in US jails who the US wants to send back now but Castro won't allow it.

I have a friend who is an immigration lawyer in McAllen, Texas. Many Cubans cross there asking for asylum. Most are released in less than a week. My amigo told me about one thug of a Cuban they kept in detention for 2 months. He was big and nasty and covered with prison tattoos. He beat up other detainees and vandalized the facility. This clown was nothing but a hardcore felon.

After having exhausted all possibilities to get him back to Cuba, they paroled him.

While ,

Anyway you look at it, the Cuban is a political refugee. While economics may play a role in his decision to leave, the mere fact that upon repatriation they suffer repercussion makes it a political issue.

Historially, Cubans have been and are "exiles" not immigrants.

Val is right. I would add this: Cuba's economy is completely politicized. The decision to make everyone poor, so that they will be pliant, is a political one. Everyone, including fidel, knows how economics works. To destroy one's opposition by taking away any hope for material goods is what Mugabe and Chavez have in mind, too - nobody else but a tyrant does that. Anyone who doesn't want to live in such a system is someone who doesn't want to be docile and pliant. Economic freedom is still an aspect of freedom and not one to be looked down on. Cubans, unlike Mexicans or other Latin Americans, cannot politically communicate this need for economic freedom. This is because all institutions in the country have been shattered, destroyed, politicized. So, there is the high seas. The very act of taking to the high seas is all the proof you need that people are acting politically.

Frank is right. Most of the ones coming now are economic refugees who seek to return to Cuba to visit loved ones almost immediately.
My mother had a great line about that. She came to visit me once in San Antonio, and in a little bodega, the gentleman behind the register had arrived from Cuba about five years prior.
When we left, my mother said, he didn't come here for freedom or he would have left a lot sooner. Then she followed up with, "Que pasa hambre!"

Ed,

I find your statements rather upsetting, to say the least. You simply cant make a blanket statement like "most of the ones coming now are economic refugees who seek to return to Cuba to visit loved ones almost immediately" and be taken seriously.

First, your referring to Cuban exiles as "the ones" is derrogatory and condescending. And while it's true that some - some, not most - Cubans do return to the island with US cash and exploit their fellow Cubans, they arent in the majority. Most that do return to the island do so to help their families, and while I have serious problems with taking a single cent to fidel castro, who the hell am I to tell a Cuban not to feed his kids.

There may be a big cultural difference as you perceive it, but in the end, they are still Cubans. Still living under fidel castro. Still opressed and without basic freedoms. And still looking for a future. Just like you and your Mom were once.

That frequent "los de ahora no son iguales" that some folks like to parrot pisses the hell out of me. I dont like the implications of us versus them, we are better than they are, etc... If they are different, it is because they have never had the privilege of living in a free society, like Cuba pre-castro and the US post castro. Whatever your personal feelings about the new arivals, remember this: Son cubanos.

While I agree that included in the refugee figures are economic refugees we cannot forget the early years when many thought as my relatives did that it would never last. We must also remember there are those who are FINALLY seeing the light and I say better late than never. It is far too easy for us to judge those who came later than us when we don't know the details of their walk. As for the C/A Vote we will once again play the harlot and give photo ops and swallow the annual "Cuba will someday be free" speech. Its time for us in the US to see the light. No one (or at least not many) outside the Cuban community gives a rip about Cuba. Cuba will NEVER be free unless the Cubans do it! I hope we at least get a kiss this year.

The policy will not change.

Scott,

I guess only time will tell on that. My opinion is that it will. The Cuban Adjustment Act might always be maintained, but the wet foot/dry foot policy will become political fodder next time elections come around in Florida.

Ed's experience is my experience here in Miami. It is also the experience of every CA I talk to *privately* about the subject. Not exactly scientific but compelling. Mind you, I have members of my own immediate family, of my generation, that have arrived in the past 3 years from Cuba and have returned 6 months later, and many times thereafter, until recently. It is a very controversial subject in the family to say the least.

But like most CA's of the Peter Pan generation I pay close attention to the opinion of my elderly parents on all things Cuban. And when my 75+ year old mom, who has refused to visit Cuba for 46 years so long as the barbudo is in power, says, "its time to send them all back, they are all ñangaras inside" and "let them fix the problem they helped created," it tells me something big has changed in the past 5 years within the Cuban community here.

Were my recent parientes from Cuba communist? Well, like everyone who arrives here with a University degree, yes. And why did they leave? Because they wanted to make a better future for themselves. Are they communist now? Of course...not?

I don't think the republicans have to worry about my vote or my parent's vote.

Val,

Easy there, partner. I'm only relaying what I've seen with my own eyes whenever I return to Miami. Son cubanos y necesitan ayuda, pero vienen por libertad o porque estan pasando hambre? Perhaps a blanket statement was a bit much on my part, but there is truth to what I am saying.
I get pissed when I think that my father never saw his brother again. My uncle died recently and my father was inconsolable. My uncle's kids came to Miami and forgot about him and never made an effort to bring him even for a three-month visit. But they've gone back to visit other family, some who still love and revere the beard. Maybe I'm in the minority, but that's just taking advantage of the system.

Cheo,

My parents will never return to the island as well. I wont either. And I can assure you that the republican party need not worry about my or my family's vote.

That said, you simply cant expect Cubans that have recently arrived to see things our way. Its a whole other animal over there.

And our community has already been through this exact same thing. Remember los Marielitos? Same things were echoed back then. They arent the same, they are economic refugess, etc. etc.. Y que? They ended up being just like any group of Cuban exiles prior to them.

Mind you, I am not saying there arent those Cubans that have recently arrived that are ñangaras. Ive written about a few here like th high end Miami Beach realtor with fidel and che portraits on his wall. Or the restaurant owners who travelled to Cuba to buy art cheaply and then sell at inflated prices. And also know of one woman who came for three months, worked for three weeks and then went back because "Aqui hay que trabajar mucho."

But there are others, like the guys that did my pool last year that have only been here a short time and not only busted their asses, but told me in no uncertain terms that they would not go back to Cuba, despite their ENTIRE families still living there.

Fact of the matter is that it takes an exceptional amount of courage and the circumstances of your daily existence must be se incredibly dire that one takes to the ocean on a raft or a homemade boat to reach the US. That act, in itself, is worthy of respect and admiration.

Val,

We must be living in parallel universes. I'm not referring to balseros. I'm talking about the lucky 20,000 or so who hit the lotto and come over every year. A lot of them are playing the system, bro. Those who risk the shark-infested waters, dammit, I support. The likelihood of them wanting to return to visit loved ones right away is slim, don't you think?

Ed,

I will have to look this up, but I believe the regime holds the visas of the majority of those who have won the lottery. There was a case not to long ago of a group of Cubans who took to the sea despite having won the lottery visas.

Now, of course, I wont argue that there is no political nepotism with the lottery in Cuba, there has to be. But still, I cant, in good conscience, call for the return of all Cubans back to Cuba.

Val: You state the following: 'Whatever your personal feelings about the new arrivals, remember this: Son cubanos.'
I do not know when you left Cuba, but I left in 1967 at the age of eight years old. I can remember being called 'gusano' and other terrible things, made an outcast by friends and their families for the simple reason I was leaving the country. I can only imagine the hardship by parents as adults were exposed to for the same reason of just wanting to leave the country. The people making us feel this way were not government agents, but our neighbors, friends and sadly enough family members. They were the same 'cubanos' that now are arriving in the USA and RETURNING TO CUBA a year later.
You say 'I find your statements rather upsetting, to say the least. You simply cant make a blanket statement like "most of the ones coming now are economic refugees who seek to return to Cuba to visit loved ones almost immediately" and be taken seriously.'
While it may be upsetting it is the TRUTH. Let us not be like other ethnic groups that blindly accept, forgive and forget all the shameful acts of their group simply because they are CUBANOS.

s. almeida,

Do you realize what youre saying? You are basically saying that every Cuban in Cuba deserves to live the way they do. Im sorry, and despite the fact that one of the very few memories I have of Cuba was that of my family sitting in the back of a dump truck on our way to the airport to leave the island, while all the towns people screamed at us and threw things at us, i just cannot agree.

1967 was a long time ago. A completely different era and a completely different world. And while its inevitable to harbor some resentment towards some who deserve it, you cant make a blanket statement like that and not come off as asome kind of bigot. how many balseros have you seen arriving that are over 38 years old? That 6 year old kid that drowned the other day never called you a gusano did he?

Sorry pal. I dont subscribe to that. You can go ahead and hate Cubans if you want but it just begs the question: What the heck are you doing reading this blog? Are you saying you love Cuba and not the Cuban people?

This is exactly the mentality that leads the world to criticize the Miami exile community. Its not about forgiving and forgetting, but sometimes, you just have to let go of the past else your doomed to relive it.

Not one Cuban here can honestly say that every single Cuban in Cuba isnt worth our support and hard work to rid them of the scourge that oppresses them.

And another thing. The Cuba you left is long gone. Kaput. History. It will never be the same.

Either we accept that as fact and work to help her future, or we forget all about her and move on.

From the US Interests Section in Havana- I just want to add this for a little clarity. Note the $850 fee. This says a lot about castro's selection process for the exit visas don't you think?

The Cuban government does not allow Cuban citizens who obtain U.S. immigrant visas or transportation letters to depart Cuba unless they also possess a Cuban exit permit (tarjeta blanca). Cubans immigrating to the United States are subject to an assortment of fees from the Government of Cuba, totaling approximately US$850.00 per person. The United States government plays no part in this process, and cannot intervene on behalf of any individual to assist or expedite the issuance of Cuban exit permits. The United States Interests Section has sent repeated diplomatic notes to the government of Cuba to protest delays in the granting of exit permits and the exorbitant exit fees required of departing Cuban citizens, but we anticipate no change in this situation in the foreseeable future.

People make twelve bucks a month in Cuba. castro's $850 fee is close to ten years' salary. Talk about indentured servitude!

Tito: Does one do what is right because it is the correct thing, or because one expects to be compensated in some way?

Here is the link to the creepy realtor who has a portrait of castro polluting his wall, from Val's story. Click on my name and the link can be reached automatically. Or cut and paste here:

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/000593.html

Val,

No offense, but I don't think s.almeida is saying the Cubans deserve their plight. Perhaps it is just a generational difference. Maybe my parents (and yours) refuse to go back and and give that bastard one damn cent but those that come in this era does.
I often told my parents they should go back to visit family but they refused and made the sacrifices in the hopes that it would speed the bearded one's downfall. In any case, I side with my parents although there's no easy answer to that dilemma. Anyway, this post was about illegal immigration to start with, and most of agree that the system in this country is broken and needs a radical fix. The Cuban issue may or may not be involved in that mix.

Ed,

Ive made my thoughts on the returning to Cuba crystal clear. Search for "yo no voy" and "a much needed repost".

I do not condone the return of Cubans to the island once they have been granted asylum. That said, do you think, for example, that my father who came in 1968, had he had the opportunity to go back and see his sister before she died would not have gone to see her? When our parents generation came, they werent allowed a return. And while I think its absurd to go back to Cuba after exiling and giving the bastard money, can we honestly think that people with their families still in Cuba wont go despite having said opportunity? if the opportunity is there, people will take it. Political considerations be damned.

We did get a bit off topic, no? Anyway, there's no hard feelings. I just call them like I see them.

I don't remember reading a post in this blog from a Cuban who emigrated in the past few years, has returned to Cuba to help family and friends, got his/her education from fidel, used their healthcare, belonged to the communist party, and now is here as a hard core right/left wing republican/democrat or whatever.

I would really like to listen to their experiences, thuoghts and outlook. Maybe Val can "shake" the blog for such a person.

Cheo, visit KillCastro. I, one half of it, is all you said, minus belonging to the (bleeping)communist party, which I would have never done, they would have to kill me first and then put the (bleeping) card in my hand.

I support a total ban on illegal immigration and the deportation of all illegals in the United States. On the other hand, I believe anyone arriving from Cuba and certain other hellholes has a right to be considered a political refugee unless otherwise proved. The wet foot/dry foot policy is an especial affront to logic and justice considering the idiotic non enforcement of the law on the southern border.

Unless we are willing to proclaim Mexicans, Guatemalans, and others entering accross the open border are subject to the same oppression as Cubans, we can be for closed borders and liberty for refugees.

Kenneth,

I couldn't agree with you more. But it will be difficult to give the Cubans a special designation, given the animus felt toward us.

The Cuba issue is a very difficult one, with all due respect, especially for a Republican administration. On the one hand, there is the urge to do something, while on the other you have the accusations of "Yanqi imperialists!" waiting in the wings. It's difficult to strike the right balance.

I find it hard to believe that Cuban emigres are likely to be caught up in a mass illegal immigration enforcement effort, because pretty much any Cuban who has entered this country is here legally. The wet foot/dry foot policy, regrettable as it is, does allow any Cuban reaching U.S. soil to automatically apply for asylum. And the Cuban Adjustment Act allows any Cuban who has been admitted to the U.S. to automatically adjust his or her status to that of legal permanent resident after one year.

From a legal standpoint, this is all very different from Mexicans and Central Americans crossing the border illegally, or South Americans and East Europeans over-staying their tourist visas. Those classes of persons are immediately removable under the law, whereas even a Cuban who is found removable (this only happens in the case of a conviction for a serious felony) can challenge removal under the Convention Against Torture. Indeed, no immigrant group has been given more of a red-carpet welcome than Cuban fleeing Fidel's regime in the last 45 years.

I have personally observed a troubling gap between the "old school" exiles, who arrived from '59 through the 70s, to more recent, post-Mariel arrivals. Based on my experience living in Eastern Europe, I would suggest that this difference is due to the latter generation having grown up under communism. The mentality is just too different, and I worry that it may not be a mentality that is compatible with the level of civic virtue one needs to thrive in our system.

Having said that, I am not sure what viable alternative exists to the wet foot/dry foot policy. Don't forget that the policy was adopted at a time when Castro was threatening to unleash another Mariel, and the Clinton administration was trying to find a way to avoid that result while increasing the number of lottery visas. The wet foot/dry foot policy was thus adopted as an executive agreement -- short of a treaty, but an agreement nonetheless -- between the two governments.

If Bush were to disavow the wet foot/dry foot policy, Castro might very well unleash another Mariel. Can we afford that?

I meant to add, before the second to last paragraph, that it is nevertheless a fair bright-line rule to allow persons living in neighboring countries under oppressive political systems to apply for asylum, should the opportunity arise.

Hopefully this makes sense of the rest of my comments.