Even though the embargo has been a washout,now
it is not the appropriate time to lift it.

Ralph,

You cant simply state the embargo has been a washout without elaborating or stating why its been a washout.

To me, its not a given that its been a washout.

I can give a point that makes it a wash out. The U.S. does half a billion dollars worth of business yearly with Cuba. Food is not covered by the embargo, thus letting Barbara Boxer to proclaim to her constituents that Fidel has saved him and their unwanted crops.

The embargo only works when everything is included and everyone is involved (or at least the vast majority). Since there are countries that are very similar to the U.S. that do ample business with Cuba it is hard for Cuban society to see themselves as the problem while being so widely accepted. The U.S. is then seen as having ulterior motives than just bringing democracy- the U.S. comes off as wanting to govern the country.

In other words if everyone is fine with what you are doing pretty soon you will be convinced that the few that are against you suffer from poor judgment. Therefore the U.S. walks into the "bad guy" role all too willingly.

Yet in the same vein- Removing the embargo now would be a major blow to any democratic movement on the island. If power is unstable then everything should be done to keep it from emboldening itself through the trappings of capitalism.

Todopoderoso,

Cant it also be seen that its not the US having ulterior motives, but taking a moral stance? The only country in the world to do so?

(1) Has the 47 year old US trade embargo on Cuba worked or has it been a failure? Yes and No.

(2) Should we lift the embargo immediately or upon fidel's succession? Only if fidel and raul are both dead and buried.

(3) How will lifting the trade embargo change things in Cuba? If done today it will signal a defeat of US foreign policy against one of its most tenacious enemies. If done when fidel and raul are room temperature, the influx of goods, services an capital may finally lift the lid off of the putrid pot that has been fidelismo and inspire our brothers and sisters to resolver in grand style.

(4) Is there really an embargo? Who believes that? Only fools. If there were an embargo -- a real embargo -- there would be warships at the 12 mile limit and we wouldn't be letting a fly into Cuba. In addition, how about all of the other countries that trade with Cuba. fidel's desire to lift the emabrgo is more symbolic than substantive. We lift, he wins; we don't, he doesn't. That is why I say: keep the pressure on and keep the embargo until the motherfucker(s) dies.

Has the 47 year old US trade embargo on Cuba worked or has it been a failure? The partial embargo has helped save American taxpayers' dollars as castro has defaulted on the rest of the world. By extension one could say it helped bring the evil soviet empire down as castro cost the soviets a lot of money over the years.

Should we lift the embargo immediately or upon fidel's succession? The US should only "lift it" after a real transition where all political prisoners are freed and Cubans gain freedom of expression, of assembly and a path to multiparty elections begins.

How will lifting the trade embargo change things in Cuba? If lifted without insisting on the other conditions, it will simply add money for the castros' to oppress the enslaved Cubans. You will simply add American tourists to the list of foreigners exploting the desperate Cuban workers and jineteras, etc.

Is there really an embargo? It is very limited and of course it is only the USA. castro has definitely won the propaganda war on that point.

1. The embargo has not brought down the regime, so it has not worked. But it has not rewarded Castro for his many bad acts. And it has kept the pressure on Havana, by drawing attention to the reasons for the embargo, i.e. the repressive nature of the Castro regime. I know Castro has many allies in Europe, MSM, USA, etc. that are willing to ignore that and blame the US for all of Cuba's problems, but the embargo — our willingness to put our money where are morals are — gives the U.S. a certain moral credibility when it comes to Cuba. I just wish the government would use it more forcefully.

Also, as Cuba moves through these uncertain times, the embargo remains a tool the U.S. can use to effect some change.

2. The embargo should be lifted only after certain pre-conditions are met, namely:
— The departure of both Castro brothers, as well as other members of the top leadership, say the Politburo or the Council of Ministers/State.
— The release of all political prisoners.
— A roadmap for free elections. I'm not saying Cuba has to be a full-blown democracy before the embargo is lifted, but there has to be certain thresholds met. Perhaps the embargo could be lifted in phases as Cubans make the transition to democracy.

3. Lifting the embargo will go a long way towards re-integrating Cuba into the international economic system in matters of trade, banking and other areas. To a certain extent, Cuba is already part of the international economic system, but the engine that really drives that system is the United States. As long as it is cut off from the U.S., Cuba cannot be a full player. Lifting the embargo will not only open a new market and let Cubans buy the things they want, but it also will allow for a massive reconstruction program to begin.

4. In a sense, there is not an embargo. Most of the world already does business with Cuba — as does the U.S. through loopholes in the embargo. It is important to remember that none of those dealings have changed the fundamentally repressive nature of the Cuban regime. To expect the lifting of the U.S. embargo to change that is at best, naive, and at worse, wreckless. It also is important to remember that if the Cuban government were to make the changes detailed in Answer #2, the embargo could be lifted. The choice is in their hands.

One embargo that does exist is the embargo Castro has placed on the Cuban people. For example, Washington's lifting of travel restrictions for Americans would not do as nearly enough to change Cuba as a Cuban government decision to lift travel restrictions for Cubans.

Once again, the embargo is in place because of Castro and his regime. They have the power to make the changes that would see it lifted.

OK, here's some more fuel to the fire:

Lifting the embargo and opening trade relations with teh government of Cuba will undoubtedly allow Cuba access to the World Bank, where, for a minor deposit of say, 1 million, they have access to billions and billions of dollars in credit.

Discuss.

I'm in favor of the lifting of trade sanctions, and would hope the US ask for two conditions. The freeing of political prisoners and the end of apartheid. Cubans should be able to go to the same resorts, hotels, and restaurants as foreigners.

According to the Cato Institute's 1985 piece "Whats Wrong With Trade Sanctions" (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa064.html), they almost always never work.
"More often than not, sanctions end up making the target country more self-sufficient and strengthening its resolve to continue its policies."

Closeup.org has a piece written in 1997 on the history of US/Cuban sanctions at http://www.closeup.org/cuba.htm

Has the 47 year old US trade embargo on Cuba worked or has it been a failure? BOTH WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR A FREE CUBA BUT IT HAS KEPT THE CASTRO BROTHERS AWAY FROM ALL THOSE CREDITS

Should we lift the embargo immediately or upon fidel's succession? WE SHOULD LIFT IT ONLY AFTER THE CASTRO BROTHERS FALL AND LET THE CUBAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT AS THEY STAND UP THE REGIME WE WILL DO ALL WE CAND TO BRING DOWN THE EMBARGO...ITS UP TO THEM

How will lifting the trade embargo change things in Cuba? HAVE YOU HEARD LA HABANA DC BY WILLIE CHIRINO???

Is there really an embargo? I DONT BELIEVE SO BUT ITS ALL WE HAVE AND IT DOES AVOID THE BROTHERS ACCESS TO THE WORLD BANK ETC

International aid programs have had mixed results, but for a variety of reasons such programs will be needed in Cuba. For economic and political reasons, it would be a mistake if the perception was the U.S. was doing it alone so that it could "buy back" Cuba. Again, membership in the WTO and other international organizations would be carrots we could hold out to a transition government. It would be one of those the U.S. could offer as it lifts the embargo in phases.

If the embargo would have been done in the same manner as had been done in South Africa, this blog would probably not exist today, or would be talking about improving the DEMOCRATIC government of Cuba.

But no, the world chose to take a blind eye to the aparthied in Cuba for whatever reasons.

In South Africa, the sanctions were part of a larger international political campaign to end apartheid and institute a truly democratic system in the nation. Over time, it brought about much-needed change.

It would be wonderful if a similar effort could be launched against Cuba, but of course, many of those who were quick to isolate South Africa — the United Nations, actors and singers, etc. — hold Cuba to different standards.

Also, the greatest irony is that many of those who argued that sanctions would change South Africa are those who say that they are doing no good in Cuba.

Val,

I have two questions for you.

- How can you expect a society that is indoctrined to believe morals do not exist to percieve the U.S. as taking a moral stance when they are the ones going hungry? (Please remember that most people are ignorant here and there are ignorant to the reasons for an embargo, therefore making them easily swayed by what they are told)

- In regards to the world bank, can you tell me another totalitarian state that recieves billions and billions of dollars from the World Bank?

I completely agree that if there is any institution that should ban Cuba it is the World Bank and IMF. Those are our tax dollars after all.

in my opinion, there is no "embargo",just the right of any country,in this case USA to have or not to have relations with any country,in this case Cuba...
second,US relations with Cuba must be open at the same time that Cuba's regime opens and start being a normal country...
third....if US Cuban's relations wouldn't have been broken at the beginning of the "revolution",the US would have been part of the "game" in castro's regime,one way or another,in other words,wouldn't have been any big difference,or changes for good in Cuba's regime,for example,US always had a relation with the ex USSR,and they "lived" for almost 70 years,US also had relations with the ex Eastern Europeans countries before they were communist,and while they were communist,and things changed overthere not because of USA,but because of the same regime's rotten ideas and sistem..so,bottom line..NO DEMOCRACY IN CUBA,NO OPENING IN CUBA,OF ANY KIND...NO US RELATIONS WITH CUBA..

The embargo is not a failure. It works. My problem with people who are against the embargo has always been one fact and one fact only. If Cuba can trade with the whole world except the US then why is the Cuban economy in complete shambles. This fact overwhelmes all logic. A second fact one must address is the internal embargo imposed by "El Mayoral". Cubans cannot engage in any economic activity of their own.
Even if we did end the embargo the internal embargo would still be in place. This would render any of the pie in the sky predictions embargo opponents preach null and void. The only benificiary of the embargo removal would be the Plantation owners and their guests (tourists).

Todopoderoso,

Here's a list of World Bank members:

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/0,,contentMDK:20103870~menuPK:1697011~pagePK:51123644~piPK:329829~theSitePK:29708,00.html

I don't see North Korea on there Val.

Also the World Bank's site states:

"Our mission is to help developing countries and their people reach the goals by working with our partners to alleviate poverty."

Wouldn't that be impossible in a strict socialist state where people are not allowed to accumulate wealth?

And Cuba was the one that chose to leave the World Bank not the other way around. - http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTABOUTUS/EXTARCHIVES/0,,contentMDK:64055067~menuPK:64319211~pagePK:36726~piPK:36092~theSitePK:29506,00.html

Has the 47 year old US trade embargo on Cuba worked or has it been a failure?

-- I believe it worked effectively during the days of the USSR. The embargo required the USSR to expend great sums of money on Cuba which may have ultimately contributed to the downfall of the soviet empire. So in that respect it did work. After the soviets abandoned Cuba, I think we had the best opportunity to really clamp down and put pressure on the tyrant but unfortunately, the 1992 election was won by Bubba. Helms Burton was passed in his admin. but to date its powerful tools have not been utilized. Thus, in the last 13 years, its effectiveness is minute in my opinion. I don't think it's made any difference. But I don't think in the overall scheme of things it has been a failure since I believe it contributed to the economic collapse of the soviets. Morally, I don't think it should be lifted.

Should we lift the embargo immediately or upon fidel's succession?

By law, it cannot be lifted unless democracy comes to Cuba absent a repeal of Helms Burton. Frankly, I don't think there is any benefit in repealing it now except for the profiteers. From a strategic perspective, I don't see what there is to gain.

How will lifting the trade embargo change things in Cuba?

They won't. They would have to find another excuse as they won't have the "blockade" to kick around any more, but they'll blame the ills of the country then on the US and the "mafia" as trying to undermine them. Frankly, one would have to be out of their mind to do business with them or enter into ventures with them (i.e., the commies) for there would be nothing to prevent them from confiscating your investment and from changing the terms of the deal. (see e.g. Evo Morales and Chavez).

Hence, I say give cuba liberty, and we'll lift the embargo.

Is there really an embargo?

Negative. Frankly, the embargo's main benefit is that we don't have to give the tyrant credit and it keeps us from investing and doing business with him.

China is there. As is Vietnam. And Venezuela as well.

The fcat that is was Cuba that withdrew is beside the point. Remeber, it was Cuba who first decided that it needed no Americans, whether businesses or tourists or money.

The embargo has been a failure only because it is not a true embargo. I believe that a true embargo would have worked, but since ADM and others control congress we will never see a true embargo thus a partial embargo is worthless.
The partial embargo has not nor will it not hurt the regime. Many here say that fidel cannot blame the embargo for his woes thus proving that embargo serves no purpose. The world could care less about our embargo. As a matter of fact lifting our partial embargo would only cut into other countries business as they are selling what we don't. The partial embargo is simply a matter of pride for us (in the right sense as we are stuck with it although it doesn't work) and a built in excuse for castro. As I posted yesterday castro would suffer without an embargo as he would seem like the victor initially, but could not allow Americans to freely travel in Cuba at the risk of their "contamination" to their revolution. The embargo along with the travel restrictions at times attempts to impose the stance of some on the lives of all. I personally am opposed morally to anyone vacationing in Cuba, while at the same time support the right of Cubans to visit their relatives.I believe the embargo did not fail because we never had an embargo to start with. I say that in an attempt to usher a transition that we lift the embargo thus showing the people in Cuba that we are the good guys and that the embargo was in place because of castro and not because of them. I believe public sentiment in Cuba would swing our way. But if we wait too long it would lose its effect and have the opposite action.

One other note regarding other countries and credit with Cuba. Cuba doesn't need more money. It had it in the late 50's and early 60's and squandered and hid it. It had it with the soviets, and it has it with venezuela. Life for the average cuban will not change for the better. castro's involvement internationally will always be subsidized by the chavez', china's, russia's , etc. Cuba's ONLY hope is that they get a democracy and that democracy will not be helped nor hindered with an embargo.

Thanks guys, I am almost fully convinced that the world would be a much better place if Cuba sank right into the ocean.

Instead of sinking into ocean, maybe float towards Miami--

I just received the following from Humberto Fontova, whose having some issues with Typekey:

Val, regarding the embargo, my 2 cents worth:

After stealing 5,911 businesses worth $2 billion from U.S. stockholders
and crowing gleefully about the mass larceny, Cuba's then Minister of
Industries, Che Guevara, shrieked that for Cuba business with the U.S.
meant: "ECONOMIC SLAVERY!!"

"Fine," said the U.S. "You're emancipated."

"Hunnnh?!!.... AHHHH!!-AHHHH!! Yankee BLOCKADE!! The imperialists are
trying to STRANGLE us!!"

Like little kids they threw another tantrum. Naturally, scholars and
think-tank wizards take these tantrums seriously and berate the U.S.
for not sufficiently indulging those poor, neglected Communist babies.

Humberto

1. This question has to be broken into 2 parts. First, why was the embargo established in the first place? Simply, to punish castro for confiscating American properties and to slow down or prevent the spread of Communism in Latin America. In this sense, it has worked.

In the last 15 years, the embargo has been used as the main tool to bring about change in Cuba via economic pressure. This clearly hasn't worked.

2. The embargo should be lifed if, and only if, a succession government meets conditions such as release of political prisoners, reestablishment of basic human rights, elections, among others.

3. Lifting the embargo won't change a thing in Cuba UNLESS the regime meets the conditions above.

4. In the end, there is no real embargo. Sale of food and medicine to Cuba for cash, remittances, dollar stores in Cuba. What embargo?

oh man i really dont want to get into this one again, just say that there should be no restrictions on family visits for humanitarian reasons, AND...
if and when the embargo is lifted, the very same people on the left wing who said its inhumane (and im only talking about the camp that argues its an inhumane policy, the wackoloony fringe) is going to complain that it was only lifted in an attempt at globalisation to help the starbucks and mcdonalds and cocacolas et al.

If we look clear-eyed at the "Embargo", we must first ask ourselves 1. what it is that is exactly being "embargoed" and 2. what is the ultimate geopolitical goal we want for Cuba and the Cuban people. We must also CLARIFY what embargo is. First and foremost, EMBARGO DOES NOT EQUAL BLOCKADE. To be precise, the U.S. had a blockade for two weeks around the island of Cuba during the Missile Crisis, where no ships were permitted in or out. That is the definition of a blockade. It is amazing the amount of ignorance out there on that one point alone.

Secondly, we do not prohibit food, grain, or medicine from being traded with Cuba. Although specific information on which U.S. companies trade with Cuba is hard to come by, Tyson Chicken company is one company that I know does. Part of the problem about the "embargo" is the fact that it really isn't a complete embargo. The U.S. prohibits technology transfers to many other nations- does that mean we have an "embargo" with those nations? Of course not. We trade certain types of good with nations based on many different factors. As for the perpetual excuse of the "Bloqueo" being the sole reason for the misery of the Cuban people, even if we ended the embargo, another excuse would be invented, blaming the U.S. yet again. Remember, it is the Liar who is the problem, not the response of a free nation who is trying to construct a policy to a perpeptually rebellious "child" if you will.
Anything we policy we puruse will be actively countered by castro, regardless of whether we open the floodgates or turn off the spigot.

Any end to embargo on Cuba be must be pre-conditioned upon Cuba’s concessions on human rights and property rights, consistent with what we have required from other countries- Vietnam, comes to mind.

But here's the rub. Every country except the U.S. trades with Cuba, while not demanding basic reforms that we ask of the Cuban Government. The question we have to ask ourselves is do we want to indirectly subsidize the current regime through trade, making it more likely that the next generation of communists will maintain their grip on the island, and less likely for any serious reform to take place? I think we only strengthen the position of Communists on the island if we end the "embargo".

If we want to bring an end to the island's dictatorship, we have to sufficiently weaken Castro's nomenklatura, and break this group's loyalty to the regime. A free trade policy will primarily benefit these people alone, and perpetuate their regime without them enacting basic reforms for the disenfranchised of Cuba.

4. Is there really an embargo?

Well, just like water in the moon. Perhaps the US embarked on this policy on the basis of principle at the time; but the rest of the world trades with Cuba ~ or tries to. The politico-military-ruling axis has everything they need and then some. Not that far back before the dollar went out of circulation, relatives could buy anything in the govt-sanctioned "dollar stores" (my phrase) which shows the merchandise came from SOMEWHERE. And the elite has no lack. So there is no real embargo that should sink the island in the misery it is in for so long.

I second another poster's observation that lifting the US embargo will only profit fidel & Co. I truly believe that, at this point and after so many years, the "US embargo" question is really a moot point and a very dead horse. The island doesn't really need the US if it can buy and sell with the rest of the globe. ONly that the embargo has served the marxists as a propaganda tool.

Finally, free trade and lifting sanctions will not guarantee freedom .... this isn't China. fidel's different. Yet not even the chikoms benefit from our trade with them, given that the elite took over the big businesses, most of their population remains poor and the populace remains oppressed. The cheap goods we "enjoy" have sunk our balance of trade; it's been a bad deal.

I know the difference between an embargo and a blockade. In my previous comment I should have added that we should "upgrade" the embargo to a blockade and park our warships as provocatively as possible just outside the 12-mile limit to give the motherfucker a heart attack. Hope I cleared that up.

Absolutely! Lift the embargo as soon as it is official that Castro is dead. It might even prompt the junta to pull the plug on him earlier than otherwise. But most importantly the two main reasons for doing this are it takes an island perceived negative, the US embargo, and turns it around and puts it onto Castro. It tells them that this has really always been about Castro and not Cubans per se. But even more importantly, especially with the travel restrictions, for every dollar the remaining regime receives from US tourists, will cause them $1000 towards undermining their control on the island. Hundreds of thousands of Cubans flooding the island with ideas would finish off these remaining tyrants within six months. We'll tell our friends and relatives there the truth. That's something the regime is powerless against It's just those 90 miles of water and US counterproductive policy that has prevented islanders from hearing the truth for so long. And that's the truth.

I'm for lifting the embargo. I understand the emotion behind the issue and the desperation to free Cuba. Still, I think it is the wrong policy.

Cuba is poor because of socialism... period. The embargo is a scapegoat that people use to defend communism globaly. Nothing stops American goods from reaching Cuba's shore through a third country. I also think that Cubans being exposed to Americans and Americans being exposed to the realities of Cuba would be a good thing.

More here:
http://www.economicswithaface.com/weblog/archives/2005/08/the_case_agains.html

But I wish ending the embargo could be done after a public debate where it was determined that the embargo is not effective and it would be in the best interest of the Cuban people to end it... instead of having it coincide with another dictator, raul castro, taking power. It just seems to send the wrong message.

OK, so lets take a tally so far. We need to start somewhere.

Has the embargo worked?

Let's keep in mind that the embargo was a just diplomatic tool until the nineties when soviet subsidies ended. It wasnt intended, IMO, to topple fidel castro.

All arguments about the unfair embargo began when fidel castro's government lost soviet subsidies and began his PR campaign against the evil embargo that he had totally ignored until the russians bailed.

And, is it a real embargo? Food and medicine are excempt, which, IMO, negates any of the "evil" embargo talk. The Cuban government has plenty of other trading partners with whcih it can trade for other necessities.

So, I ask again, has the embargo worked?

In MHO, if we continue the embargo, lets make it real an total: No traveling, no remesas, no sales of any kind, otherwise lift the embargo without conditions. At this point Cuba wants the embargo more than anything else. It is their excuse, their best and last weapon.

I'm against lifting the embargo. My rationale is here:

http://cubanamericanpundits.blogspot.com/2006/08/debate-topic-embargo.html

I didn't want to weigh the discussion down here with a long response.

Do any of the embargo advocates have their mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, nephews, grandparents, uncles, on the island???

Camaguey, it does't matter. Either you are for what's right or you're not. I understand your point, but we've been hearing it for decades now. When will the people rise up and take their destiny in their own hands?

Oye George,

The type of people who will do something and take matters into their own hands did and continue to do so by leaving the island.

They rose up and got on a plane, boat, or w/e was not attached to the bearded one and got the hell out.

If someone would be willing to go over there and begin protesting the regime I'd drop my job and go, but where is that movement? What are the people who are connected doing?

Why should the United States blink? The USA hasn't been left in the dust by history, Castro has. He has conceded not one inch, so why should the U.S.? How can America ever use an embargo against a hostile nation ever again if we lift the embargo against Cuba, if we just give up?
Life in Cuba will get not one iota better for the average Cuban if we lift the embargo. Lifting it now would simply fill the Castro's pockets even fuller than they already are, and give the world's longest-standing dictator an unmerited deathbed victory.
I do think, however, that once BOTH of the Castros are gone, we should lift the embargo ASAP, even if whoever is in power is a former Castroite (at first, they almost certainly will be); and we should make it clear, in advance, that we will do so, in order to give incentive to those in Cuba (ie, the military) who are in a position to expedite Raul's entry into history, or a US jail.

Do any of the embargo advocates have their mothers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, nephews, grandparents, uncles, on the island???

Some do, many dont. Whats your point?

Folks I think Val is asking for a straight up or down vote.
I vote lift the embargo
everyone vote without caveats and lets see what gives. If I were a betting man it will be 50/50

My opinion is that the US should lift the embargo.

Let's face it: it has been 47 years and the embargo has done nothing to the tyrant or his regime. However, I don't believe that Americans going to the island are going to have such a great influence in the changes we all want, as some anti-embargo suggest.

I believe that the embargo has only been useful to give Castro a justification for all his failed economic policies and his suppressions of all freedoms. They even blame the censorship on the Internet on the embargo. We, obviously, don't believe this, but unfortunately a lot a people inside do. That was the situation 6 years ago when I left, and I am certain this is still the case today.
Even some people, unfortunately, think they only have a choice between Fidel or the Americans coming to attack and take over the country, and they choose Fidel.
The reality is that Fidel needs the embargo. Let's not forget he shot down the brother to the rescue planes when Clinton was hesitant to sign the Helms-Burtons law. He wanted Clinton to sign, he didn't want USA to easy the restrictions at all, the stronger the embargo, the better for him.
I don't think leaving the embargo or no is going to be a decisive factor in the Cuba's future anyway, but I think that by lifting the embargo two things may happen:

1) Fidel can't continue blaming USA. He will sure look for someone else to blame, but more and more people inside and outside Cuba will be realizing whose fault really is. Also remember that a lot of people love Castro, simply because they hate USA.

2) Some economic improvement happens, unlikely because we all know the embargo is not causing Cuba's misery, but if this is the case, the people will benefit. After all Castro and his thug don't suffer the consequences of his system, but is the people of Cuba who are starving and living in extreme conditions.

And finally, remember that USA will keep the embargo until Cuba doesn't become of economic interest to them, forget politics, money talks. Just look at who is this country's first commercial partner: the largest journalist jail in the world: China. USA will not mind adding the country in the second place (Cuba) if it reports any economic benefit to them, even if they lost some votes in south Florida.

Sorry for the double post.
Please Val delete one of my duplicated comments.

Being prohibited from visiting my 67 year old mother is not morally right on any level.... I'm tired of being told to make sacrifices by the few who legislate on Cuba policy--they have nothing left in Cuba, no homes, no families, only vengeance on their minds. When will they rise up? When the CUBANS on the island are ready, not when we, here in the US, want. Fidel is a horrible human being, but lets face it, the anti-Yanqi revolution is justified as long as our government continues our hostility and ill will towards the Cuban people. You may say, the embargo is intended to hurt the regime, not the Cuban people, however the only ones suffering are the Cuban people. The embargo emboldens and strengthens the regime-- Fidel accuses the US of being imperialistic--so what do we do, we place a unilateral embargo, and talk about an assistance to a free Cuba, which is a blatant provacation. So obviously Fidel is telling the truth--this is what Cubans on the island think. Americans have been asked to lift the embargo by the UN, and we have not. Yet, we expect them to comply with human rights standards when condemned by the UN? We have to set an example.

Has the embargo worked?

I see the embargo as more of a principled objection to how Cuban government has conducted its affairs, both with regards to its own people, and how it initially confiscated U.S. assets when castro took power.

For an embargo truly to "work", the nations of the world would have to participate in the that same "embargo". There is no chance of that happening, which means that it will never "work" in the sense that it will be a useful tool for bankrupting the regime. And even if a good number of nations ceased trading with Cuba, castro would no doubt increase the number of illict ways he raises capital- proving once again that Communists are defacto Captialists when acting on behalf of their regimes (im not implying of course that Capitalists primarily use illict means to raise money- quite the contrary).

Nevertheless, I ask you all again- do we want to be contributing to the futherance of a regime which has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, which exists to solely perpetuate itself and subjugate its people? I say no, and that's the best argument that can be made for retaining the embargo, even though it may not be "working" in the tangible sense we'd like to see.

You aren't prohibited from visiting your 67 year old mother. You can go visit her right now if you haven't gone in the last 3 years. You could also go through a third country if you are willing to pay a fine. You could also have your mother visit you here.

But the reason why you just can't hop on a plane any old time you like is because of fidel and his stubornness not the US.

By the way, you know that Cuba does not accept dual citizenship so if you go to Cuba (even if you are traveling with a US passport) that you could be arrested for whatever they want to arrest you for and you would have no recourse (assuming you were born in Cuba or were at some point a Cuban citizen).

So be careful about those family visits. I heard about one guy that went down there and he rented a car from a private individual which is of course illegal and he crashed. Well they threw him in jail for more than a month.

I believe that someone properly stated it best when it was called "vengeance". That is the only thing that has been accomplished. I don't believe that lifting the embargo will contibute to castro, but just the opposite politically. Now lets vote. And remember Val you promised a gitmo debate.

I vote to keep the embargo until all current conditions under US law for lifting it have been met. Also, I wish it would be fully implemented; I think now would be a good time for the US to tighten the screws.

How is it possible that lifting the embargo won't contribute castro?

Under the current system European/Canadian tourists spend their money and it goes directly into government coffers without Cubans receiving any benefit.

American tourists will incrementally increase the amount of money coming in.

That's just one basic example of how the government monopoly can profit from normalizing trade relations with Cuba. Until there are true private businesses in Cuba (not Government companies) any increased trade will not help democratize the country.

im gonna duck and cover right about now....

Ha! Very funny Dannny.

Conductor,
I am looking at it from a political not fonancial angle. I see your point and financially he would stand to gain, but that would be cancelled out by the political capitol he would lose. he needs the embargo that has to tell us something.

First off, as daniel points out, the existence/non-existence of the embargo is irrelevant to how the rest of the world views the US policy toward Cuba. Consider:

- Embargo in place = US trying to strangle Cuba!!! those dirty yankees!!!... or...

- Embargo removed = US trying to strangle Cuban CULTURE with McDonalds, evil globalization, etc!!! those dirty yankees!!!

so how the embargo affects the way people think of the US should be a moot point.

Now, as to the question, "has the embargo worked?" Val makes a good point in that the embargo was put in place as Cold War policy, and a good policy it was. But to consider today's situation, we should ask "Is the embargo WORKING?" and the answer there (if we assume that it's current-day purpose is to weaken/topple castro) is most def. no, since Cuba can and does trade with the other 150 countries in the world.

getting rid of the embargo completely is not really politically feasible, since the whole world would see it as a "win" for castro. the question we might ask is, are there changes we could make now to the embargo to increase ties with the island so that when the castro bros DO finally kick off, we're in a better position to take advantage? I'm sure smarter people than I are already thinking about this, and I think it would probably be the most practical approach

aside from all that, I think the travel embargo and the trade embargo should be discussed as two different things. a travel embargo is somewhat unprecedented and possibly unconstitutional, and as a red-blooded conservative american I take umbrage at my government telling me where I can and can't go. yeah sure it's immoral to take a carribean vacation in valladero and pass all that hard currency to a totalitarian dictator, but so is cheating on your wife, and I don't see anyone clamoring to make laws against that (ok, well, maybe a few people). besides all that, I can say from personal experience that visiting cuba is the best arguement against castro I've ever seen, and from my one personal experience I've been able to explode the misconceptions of dozens and dozens of people.

OK, this is getting too long. dicuss.

What political capital would he lose? He's thee hero of the enitre rest of the world because he's anti-american. He'd still continue to do so. If fidel were that easy to "disarm" he would have been "discredited" in the eyes of his allies many years ago. But those people that carry water for fidel will not change their minds. That's wishful thinking.

castro has a lot to gain if the embargo is lowered otherwise he wouldn't be lobbying so hard to get it removed. Why do you think his buddies in congress like Rangel, Serrano and Waters all want the embargo removed? Why do you think he has bought food from more than 38 different states when he could get everything he needs from a handful? it's to gain allies in the fight against the embargo.

With the embargo lowered the regime makes that much more money and guess what, he never pays his bills. So he sticks it to us twice.

No way jose!

pkrupa please clarify, you've been able to explode the misconceptions of Cubans on the island or others?

Technically the US does not forbid travel to Cuba. You just can't use US dollars there. Our government has a lot of powers that aren't expressly documented in the constitution for better or worse. Regulating trade certainly is one the things the federal government has power over.

Has the 47 year old US trade embargo on Cuba worked or has it been a failure?

Has it brought down the tyranny? But if you look at it from a 'moral stand' POV, then it doesn't matter whether it's worked or not, right.

Should we lift the embargo immediately or upon fidel's succession?

Only after the Regime signals it's willing to change its ways. In other words, it shouldn't be done unilaterally without any concessions. Freedom for political prisoners, basic human rights, etc.

How will lifting the trade embargo change things in Cuba?

Under the tyranny, it won't. Except for what's already been said here, about it not giving the tyrant an excuse for the failure of his economic policies.

Is there really an embargo?

Against the Cuban people? Not really, considering Cubans can go to the various shoppis and buy most consumer goods in pesos convertibles, i.e. money they've been sent from here.

"Yet, we expect them to comply with human rights standards when condemned by the UN? We have to set an example."

Just like israel set an exapmle by pulling out of gaza only to have those animals continue their attacks and kidnap Israeli soldiers?

When are people going to learn that you can't negotiate with EVIL?

No embargo causes human rights violations. Anyone who repeats that garbage is a propagandist or isn't thinking clearly.

Conductor,
Thats no way pototo, not jose!
My thoughts are that he lobbies knowing good and well that it won't be lifted, that is part of his propaganda machine. castro cannot have Americans nor Cuban-Americans who are against him freely roaming the island. I guess I am mixing the travel restrictions with the embargo, but they are inseperable. Now as for credit for him it should not be dumped on the taxpayer, but that should apply to any other deadbeat country as well. Let the businesses take the risks and the losses. Us subsidizing any businesses losses are just our version of socialism.

Because it is not and will never be a total embargo (which I am for), My vote: Lift the embargo.

Conductor,
OFAC forbids you to be sponsored as well. It is truly an unconstitutional restriction. And remember its pototo not jose!

btw danny,
I am only joking with Conductor. So don't duck for cover.

Who do you think funds the world bank and all those other institutions that provide credit to third world countries?

And do you honestly think Americans are going to be allowed to "freely roam the island"? C'mon. You know that there was a time when the hotel employees could mingle a little with the guests but now it's verboten.

Look a friend just came back from the dominican republic. He spent a week there. The entire week his family never left the resort. And he could have gone anywhere he wanted in the country but he went for the reasons most people go, to eat drink and sunbathe. He had no incentive to go out and see how people live.

Most people will go to Varadero and never see a damned thing other than the beach because they don't want to and they won't be allowed to.

All this needs to be talked about, but at the same time (and maybe I'm alone in this) I feel like debating the idea of whether the embargo has worked, is working, or will work is kind of hard to do (almost silly) because the embargo has not existed for a while, and didn't affect Cuba much when they were recieving Soviet money.

The one thing I would say with some certainty is this: removing what is left of this embargo will not help Cuba if it is done before democracy comes about.

A lot of people (inclusing here) point out that Cuba trades with every other country. I think it is FAR more important to note that they trade with every other democracy. SURE, we Americans are proud of our system. It's a good one. It's a democratic one. But let's be real - it's not the ONLY one. What is it about American trade that would sprinkle democratic pixie dust over Cuba?

After all these years of Cuba's trading with, and migling with (and robbing) just about every other free and freedom loving society on earth (AND considering that the US is after all their single LARGEST supplier of food), the Cuban people have not been able to catch freedom fever in a way that brings about real change.

So we KNOW that trade won't work. It's a simple question of observation. Not analogies and comparisons to other countires in history. Just observation of Cuba's here and now. If you ask me, the way to go is a REAL embargo, coupled with humanitarian support to the people. Not because they're starving or becaose they need medicine. There are people in other places in much worse physical shape than Cubans.

I believe there needs to be an embargo coupled with humanitarian support becaus as long as the people are dependent on the regime for goods, nothing will change. Lifting the "embargo" will only give the regime more power over the people it sustains/enslaves.

I don't think it is a matter of whether the embargo has worked or not. Here's my vote:
Should the embargo be lifted? No, not until there is a government in place in Cuba that was chosen by the people. I think by having it in place we are at least not contributing to the troubles the Cuban people face today. Many confused people see this the other way around, but we have to be sincere and lay blame where it belongs. The troubles Cuba faces today and for the last 47 years is the fault of the government currently in place and more specifically of fidel. Not only is the communist experiment a complete failure, but all the "bright ideas" fidel has had have been nothing but failures. So no business with Cuba until democracy is in place. And I do have family in Cuba, the majority of my family is there. Is the embargo hurting them? no, fidel is hurting them. My family did not leave Cuba because of the embargo, no we left Cuba because of fidel. No other reason. My father is very good at what he does, but he is not very good at kissing ass or submitting and I don't blame him.

hey ive been present for some pretty animated discussions with henry..

for interesting reading, from a strictly austrian school of economics point of view

how to deal with a threatening island
http://www.mises.org/story/1777

trading with fidel
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.asp?control=341&sortorder=articledate

"If the US lifts the embargo it would be seen as a win for Fidel". So, what? Fidel says he always wins. If he wins in the ONU is a victory of people, if he loses is a moral victory.

I don't care how it looks if it will contribute to the freedom of our country. The true always emerges at the end.

Lifting the embargo will mean the people in Cuba and some outsiders will slowly wake up to the reality that the island's problem is not the embargo or the imperialist enemy. The awful true is that there are still quite some people in Cuba who believe their misery is due to the embargo.

Again, I think having the embargo or not could slightly influence the destiny of Cuba, it's not a decisive factor. But definitely lifting it could help; leaving it has only strengthened Fidel rhetoric for 47 years.

I vote to end the embargo.

For the past 47 years, the U.S. has continued to beat its collective heads against a wall with a policy that has had no real positive impact on the Cuban people, served to divide the Cubans on and off the island, and ultimately strengthened the castro regime. Embargos only work if they are maintained and agreed to by all nations. This is not the case with Cuba. The embargo has failed in the two most important ways (1) financially and (2) politically.

It is time to shake things up. I propose a lifting of specific aspects of the embargo such as educational trip s(with certain constraints), non-tourist related travel to the island and financial support to the Cuban people. The lifting of restraints should be done unilaterally, just as they were imposed. No negotiations with the Cuban regime and no conditions.

I argue for such a change for two reasons: (1)I agree with the previous posts that argue it is an excellent time to shake things up; (2)Cuban-American and the U.S. citizens must open real communications with the Cuban people. We must bring information, alternative ideas, new loyalties, and money. Yes money! Cubans must stop believing that they owe all they have to fidel (as many now think). Cubans must stop seeing all who oppose the regime as not-Cuban (as many now think). Finally, Cubans on the island must know that most Cubans off the island do not want to take their homes; do not want to take the little they have; are not and were not, for the most part, Batistianos, evil oppressors, or torturers. Most Cubans, who are off the island love Cuba, want to see her and the all of the people with experience liberty and sovereignty. Only the Cuban people off the island can SHOW THIS TO OUR PEOPLE on the island.

well now that we have a thoroughly beaten dead horse we have only come to one conclusion. There is no one conclusion. We have once again proven that we Cubans are cabezones. My wife once told me that whenever we Cubans get together we are always yelling and arguing. I told her that we weren't doing that we were only talking.

the dead horse comment wasn't directed at anyone. I don't want anyone mad at me.

Camaguey, the very reason you state, visiting your elderly mom, is precisely how the Beast has held ALL of us hostage for 47 years. I don't want to imagine being in your shoes. I frankly don't know what I'd do. I will say that my paternal grandmother died in Cuba -- by her own choice, I might add -- without us ever seeing her son (or us) ever again. It's a tough choice, but there is only one right choice.

I believe the embargo is necessary. Lifting it or expanding exceptions would provide Fidel or the dictator de jour more money for oppression. I hate the misery that closed trade always causes on both sides, but there is no doubt that the Cuban people would suffer more politically than they would gain economically. And there is no proof that ordinary Cubans would see any economic benefit. I cannot support anything that is not aimed at regime change,

Want to know what the Cuban elite would do with trade profits? Look at China. Those funds are invested in the military and secret police. What do we get? Threats to Taiwan, support for Iran ( and Saddam before the fall ), stonewalling on North Korea, and shooting down our planes in international air space.

Lifting the embargo is like foreign aid for our enemies. It will not open Cuba any more than it has opened China. It just gives a murderous thug more power.

I'm not reading all 71 comments (so sorry if I repeat someone elses comments) but here is my opinion:

1. no unfortunately the embargo - if meant to strangle the regime into submission or death - has not worked. It has worked VERY WELL for the bearded stooge however; for the US it has been a failure

2.No, not unless there is an agreement to process people judicially for crimes against humanity; not unless there is democracy. I read an editorial yesterday that wanting democracy reinstated in Cuba was a farse, since the island never really had a democracy. I want a freely elected person to govern the island, for the people and by the people. Only then should the embargo be lifted and UNCONDITIONAL help given to the Cubans to rebuild the country.

3. The bearded stooge would have to shut up and find new excuses for why no one can access the internet, and why there are so many shortages in Cuba. He'd be left without anyone to blame and people would have the veil taken off and realize that the bastard is to blame. However, the bearded stooge would make a lot of money out of this play - if lifted, pay upfront baby. No credit. None.

4. There is a halfwit embargo from the US in that Cuban government cannot buy all US made goods from the US - but that's not to say they can't get it from a different country. There is however an ideological embargo - a political one - and for this see point number 3 above.

Pototo, last time I checked you could be sponsored by a foreigner and go to Cuba. And if it were unconstitutional you'd think it would have been overturned by now (more than 40 year).

Fully-hosted Travel

In addition to General and Specific Licenses, there is a third category of legal travel to Cuba called Fully-hosted Travel. This is a provision that is very complicated and subject to many conditions. If you have been invited as the guest of a Cuban institution or someone in a third country (who is not subject to U.S. jurisdiction), and that individual pays all of your Cuba-related expenses, you are a "fully-hosted" traveler. Fully-hosted travelers do not need to contact OFAC or apply for a license prior to travel. However, the Regulations do not allow fully-hosted travelers to fly on Cubana Airlines, Cuba's national airlines. Fully-hosted travelers are also restricted from traveling on any direct flight between the United States and Cuba. A fully-hosted traveler may not bring back to the United States any Cuban origin goods, except for information materials such as books or CDs. A fully-hosted traveler may be asked by OFAC to provide detailed documentation that proves that the traveler did not pay for any aspect of the trip, including food, lodging, or ground transportation. OFAC may also request documentation from the sponsor or host of the trip that confirms that the travel was fully hosted.

Conductor,
Know any Cuban relatives on the island that can fully host someone? Its a known impossibility. That is what gets them around the restrictions.

Conductor,
From OFAC
"In the years since the May 13, 1999 amendments, OFAC has found that persons who claimed their travel was fully-hosted routinely engaged in prohibited money transactions (e.g., payment of entry and exit and docking fees). OFAC also has come to the position that even a person who accepts goods or services in Cuba without paying for them is in fact engaging in a prohibited dealing in property in which Cuba or a Cuban national has an interest. Therefore, OFAC is removing the language regarding fully-hosted travel from the CACR and is thereby eliminating any authorization of fully-hosted travel. Amended Section 515.420 now explains that OFAC interprets the prohibition in Section 515.201(b)(1) on dealing in property to include a prohibition on the receipt of goods or services in Cuba when those goods or services are provided free-of-charge, whether received as a gift from the Government of Cuba, a national of Cuba, or a third-country national, unless otherwise authorized by an OFAC general or specific license. See, e.g., Section 515.560(a) of the CACR. Amended Section 515.420 also explains that payment for air travel to Cuba on a third-country carrier, which involves property in which Cuba has an interest (for example, because the carrier will pass a portion of the payment on to Cuba), is now prohibited unless the travel is pursuant to an OFAC general or specific license.

In the process of removing references to fully-hosted travel, OFAC is also removing the companion language in Section 515.420 stating that any person who travels to Cuba without OFAC authorization is presumed to have engaged in prohibited travel-related transactions there. Notwithstanding the removal of this language, OFAC may still argue, either within the Treasury Department civil penalties process or before a United States court, that the receipt of services or other dealings in property in which Cuba has an interest, such as a stay at a Cuban hotel or the purchase of food in Cuba, can be inferred from evidence of multi-day travel in Cuba."

Sound like its "technically" totally restricted.

I stand corrected. Well all we have to do is get rid of fidel and we'll be able to go anytime we want.

oh sorry, I've been able to explode the misconceptions of people who haven't been able to visit cuba and see it with their own eyes, and have coordinately ridiculous opinions about the healthcare sys, etc.

At least we can all agree to disagree. Our experiences with Cuba help us shape our arguments. You have conductor, whose no less Cuban than me, make valid points. There is no doubt in my mind the embargo is justified. However, it simply does not work. He would know that if he lived there for 30 years as have I. I'm not saying my opinion is the absolute truth....but you have to put a face behind that embargo. No, visitng my mother once every 3 years is not enough. However, I respect US law, and would travel via a 3rd country. We can all agree that we want a free Cuba, and it's Fidel's fault we're all here, however, no one can convince me the embargo is beneficial.

here's an attempt at thinking outside the box that's quite possibly ridiculous, but here goes...

let's say, hypothetically, that we lift the embargo, US investment in Cuba goes through the roof, and in a few years castro, through his state-run enterprises, is richer than God. I'm not talking about 100s of millions... in the whole scheme of things that's chump change. I'm talking BILLIONS. great. what happens next? obviously there's the chance he'll start funding revolutions in other places, spreading his bullshit gospel, etc. but what if he toppled from the shear weight of all the cash? we all know extreme wealth brings decadence, and, especially in a government, with decadence comes more corruption, more comfort, more... complacence. and with complacence comes vulnerablity, with vulnerabilty power struggles, with power struggles a breaking up of the ruling elite and space for democracy!

does this sound like a totally wacky scenerio? the principle is that an enemy is much more dangerous when he's hungry and on his guard all the time. I'd much rather make castro fat and slow, then let the cubans themselves finish him off from within.

anyway, just a comment from the radical right wing libertarian school of thought ;-) screw principles. we need to figure out a way to turn human nature to our advantage.

I'm not a Babaloa so I cannot tell the future, however; some major changes now exist that should influence how we (U.S.) proceed.

In 1958 there were about 6.6 million Cubans of which more than one half were non-white. These people had not been part of the ruling class and when the migration to Florida occurred starting in 1959, many of the ruling class whites left Cuba. There have been almost two million refugees that have left Cuba.

The Cubans left behind soon occupied the vacated homes and property of those that left. They are not of the mindset that looks forward to Miami Cubans coming back and reclaiming their property. I am told that this would not happen anyway and that some sort of repayment would be arranged for those that lost property in Cuba.

Removing this fear from those still living in Cuba should be part of the program that is presented to them now. Then they would have less resistance to a change in government. Another program would be to do what this thread is questioning, restarting trade with Cuba. This could be used as a lever to encourage a regime change.

If Castro were a human being, he would realize that he cannot take his wealth with him through death. I had expected him to possibly announce a birthday present to the Cuban people on his eightieth birthday. The present, "You Are Free" and elections will be held on my next birthday.

Perhaps he needs to be told that if he does this, he will not be held personally liable for his crimes. Why not, he is going to die soon anyway.

These offers should come from the leaders of the Cuban community in the U.S. It would certainly become a topic of conversation in Cuba.

Fidel castro is not motivated by wealth. At least not in the way someone like Donald Trump is. If he were he would have gone about things much differently. He cares about one thing: antagonizing the US as much as possible. He thinks that the only way he can go down in history as a someone as great as Alexander the Great or Napoleon is by bringing the US to its knees. He does not accept the fact that he is the ruler of a third rate banana republic (and that he made it that way). He seeks confrontation. He would like every country south of the Rio Grande to join in one major Latin American revolutionary force to accomplish these goals. But he needs money to do this. It's no surprise that the biggest democratization in Latin America occurred during Cuba's "Special period". castro couldn't export revolution because things were too unstable at home (thanks embargo). But then mini-fidel got elected in venezuela.

Castro would most certainly spend his windfall on subversion of Latin America. This is the same guy that WANTED a nuclear war with the US. He's a pyscho that thinks it's destiny to confront the empire.

Well I ain't going to sit around while we sell him the guns and the bullets to do it.

Conductor, respectfully, all that Bastard cares about is himself. He is an egomaniac that only wants attention, to be known, to be remembered and accordingly he will do whatever it takes to achieve it. If that's antagonizing the US, then that's what it is. As he has. But the true motivator, is simple and basic need to be on the stage.

The embargo has become a non-issue. Its functionality has lapsed. Thus it is irrelevant. For this reason, I vote to simply keep it, but ignore it (no enforcement). One consequence to this lack of enforcement that I strongly advocate would be the mass influx of Cuban-Americans into the island. If the US would open the flood gates from their side, Cuban exiles should take the opportunity to “invade” Cuba both physically and ideologically (perhaps we should do this regardless of US law..I note another comment on the risks this may present to us, but maybe we need to think not only about risks to be taken by Cubans on the island, but Cubans everywhere). The castro government would be initially conflicted by the money versus security such an influx of rich potential dissidents represents to them. But by the time their greedy minds realized that they should stop people from coming in, it would be too late. Cubans from the outside would encourage Cubans on the inside and changes would take place. Keep the embargo, cease to enforce it and encourage a mass migration TO the island. Embargo, shmargo...let's go there and take it back!

Patricio,
I wish more had that spirit. I believe that taking it would indeed be the trick. But our hands are tied.
Val,
don't forget gitmo!

Ventanita,

I don't see how you and I are disagreeing on this. What you said is exactly what I said. Fidel has delusions of grandeur. He has a deep seeded need to have a legacy. But not a legacy like an American president or an artist might want to have. He wants to be seen as a fearless conquerer and a warrior. In order to solidify that legacy he feels he has to confront the one true superpower. It's like taking on Rome back in the times of the Empire. He hates America because he can't be the ruler of America. But he loves America because he would love to be the ruler of America. It's fucked up.

Patricio, wouldn't that be like a repeat of the BOP without any element of surprise, without weapons, another words, suicide? I don't believe the regime would just let Cuban exiles "flood" the island. There'd be a major incident at best with Cuba crying invasion and confirming their propaganda. Not to mention getting past the US Navy and Coast Guard. Now if there was enough money to hire an army of mercenaries, that might be a different story.

Ziva,

...There'd be a major incident at best with Cuba crying invasion and confirming their propaganda...

Perhaps a major incident is precicely what's needed. Perhaps, suicidal...yes...but how is that diffferent from what many outside of Cuba are asking Cubans on the island to do? As far as invasion, it would not be a US invasion...it's Cubans returning to their homeland...a right stipulated by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of which Cuba (and the US for that matter) supposedly is a signatory. On the issue of propaganda, it is what it is (lies)...why be controlled by it?

Pat, It's not any different than what we’re asking of Cubans on the island, and maybe that display would make a difference and create movement on the island, I don't know. I'm just saying I don't think it would work, it would just confirm islanders worst fears taught by the regime that exiles are going to invade to reclaim their property and with our own Navy and Coast Guard fighting us on this end, that's exactly what it would look like. They've said they won't allow mass migration from either side and they have ships in place just for that possibility so how would this work? And for those who got through, they would get shut down pronto by Cuba, Cubans would not hear the real story about what happened, if they heard anything. Probably they'd be stopped before they were visible from Cuba. I am all for invading Cuba, by any means if it's a plan that has a chance of succeeding, and I share your frustration. I don't like sitting here watching raul and his junta tighten the reigns while the world just sit backs and watches. Collectively, human kind has a very poor record when it comes to stopping genocide and injustice and it seems like this is more of the same.

embargo??? what embargo??? wasnt castro just photographed wearing an ADIDAS jacket?

i think what is important is to maintain castro's inability to obtain credit and finance. the only way to do this by maintaining the pseudo-embargo.

even if we were to lift the embargo (and create the ability for castro to get credit) and this were to generate more revenue for the cuban government, the people of Cuba would NEVER see any of this money, nor would their life circumstances become any better. castro would use the money to continue to finance his revolution thoughout Central and South America (more so than he already can).

My $0.02 worth.

Thanks,

Adidas is a German Company

Americans can travel to Cuba, send money to Cuba, telephone Cuba. Sell food and medicine to Cuba. And the Cuban people are not being denied anything but what is denied by castro himself.

castro needs to keep the people poor and hungry so that they don't have too much free time to ponder their reality. The more time and energy that Cubans spend just trying to survive;the better for castro since they'll be too tired and weak to turn on him.

The embargo is more symbolic than substantive and I believe it should stay. The Cuban miss-government will be denied credits which is really what they want so that castro and his cronies can stash away even more money in foreign accounts. If we lifted the embargo today, castro would still control who comes and goes and where and when they do it. To argue anything else would be a farce.

Castro is no different than those in the Arab world who always need to have a scapegoat for the people to hate and maybe forget about who is really keeping them down.
It doesn't matter what we do. Castro will always spin it his way. So why give him the satisfaction of winning both symbolically and in a concrete manner by lifting the embargo?

Oh and Camaguey-you don't know what a real exile is until you really can't visit nor call nor send money except through a third country to your mother in Cuba. There are some people here who don't have anyone in Cuba now: but when they did were not able to make any contact except through letters that took for ever to make it back and forth.
All of this not because of the Americans, but because of fidel/raul who didn't want it to happen and didn't need anything because they were getting it from the Russians.

Since when has castro cared about the Cuban people????

My vote is to keep the embargo until some real changes come about that will reach the average Cuban.

yeah i did some work for adidas on a soccer tournament and asked them to hook me up with some cuba gear, they provide athletic gear for most all of their teams..

1) The embargo has been a success in that it has restricted Cuba's access to American cash. The only real currency on the planet.

2) We should lift the embargo immediately after the first free election. Or after the first McDonald's is built in Havana. Whichever comes first.

3) Lifting the trade embargo will allow Cuba's economy to flourish once again. But, only after the removal of the communists. With a real capitalist at the helm, access to US currency, and free trade with it's economic super power neighbor things will take off fast!

4) I would call it more of a trade restriction than an embargo. No US currency. No US goods. No US tourism. Although certain points of that have been reduced. Since US food and agriculture supplies are now able to travel to the island prison. The only thing keeping the island from world trade is the foul barbudo's mismangement of the nation's finances. Have you noticed you never hear the words 'socialism' and 'thriving economy' in the same sentence?

carter on the embargo
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,431793,00.html
SPIEGEL: You sought to normalize relations with Castro, but that never happened. Has anything been achieved through Cuba's isolation?

Carter: In my opinion, the embargo strengthens Castro and perpetuates communism in Cuba. A maximum degree of trade, tourism, commerce, visitation between our country and Cuba would bring an earlier end to Castro's regime.

The embargo is real in many ways, just like it is not real in its absolute term. The fact that Cuba is free to trade with other nations except US proves that the embargo in itself is not the cause of the island´s economic catastrophe. But the embargo is real in the ideological fight for the success of communism, the embargo is real in the arena of politics and the embargo resonates as an impassible tool that ignites Castro´s rhetoric. Should it be lifted? I think it should. When? Not a minute before Castro's death but a minute after. With his departure, the myth, the figure and the aura ends, his legacy, as he has stated would be left to history for judgement. This is the one opportunity that may not come later when Raul or his successor pretend to take grips with the past. The point is to ransack the house before the owners get back from their brief absence. Though not shocking in its intrinsic sense, since so much militia has been called up by Raul in anticipation of an invasion, a change in the foreign policy will be a surprise, and the beginning of a period that hopes of a better present, this (without sounding alien to the issues) will resonate well with the idealistic views of those on the left, forming the ground for the most anticipated transition from communism to a free society, reminding ourselves that the process is long, thus communism is a state of mind, much like a welfare receiver transitioning from dependency to individual responsibility. The energy of the Cuban people is insurmountable, given the chance for prosperity; they will rise to the occasion. Lifting the embargo the minute after his death will be as symbolic as his rhetoric of Marti's hate for the colossal north has been for propping the regime all these years. Not only the economic impact will be unprecedented but the flow of ideas, the infiltration of capitalism will help spread democracy in this hemisphere. And if anyone remembers the embrace between Chavez and Ahmadinejad, it should serve as a reminder that the vacuum left by unfulfilled, undeliverable promises will soon be filled by another host. Let history absolve Fidel, let it no repeat itself.