I'd do a Bugs Bunny style "Aaahhhh, shaddap!" and continue:

"If you think Fidel is so wonderful, why are you still living here, hypocrite?"

My gut reaction would be to darle un sopapo que se le caiga la cara – the alternative would be to take him by the hand to the airport buy him a one-way ticket to a flight to Mexico that connects with another flight to Cuba. Or better yet, build him a raft and have him row his way back to Cuba. Don’t know, this is hard – I think beating the shit out of him would be more fulfilling, yet I know it would be completely wrong – since that is what they do in Cuba to people who speak out to oppose the dictatorship.

The person deserves a big "FUCK YOU!" response.

As Mr. Miyagi instructed little Daniel in Karate Kid...FOCUS!

Focus on why you're there. Don't totally lose it. Ignore the idiot moonbats, they were there to stir the pot. Do everything possible to avoid doing what Vigilia Mambisa did.

It's tough, but we wouldn't be over at Stuck on the Palmetto and other blogs trying to explain to the rest of the community that we don't condone violence if those guys would have kept their cool.

Where was the Miami PD? I dont' know the details but don't you think the police should have kept the assholes away from the protestors to avoid trouble? I don't condone the violence either, but at the same time I know I'd want to kick him in a place that would make him squeak rat he is.

No Robert. An inch of rope is all they need to hang you. Never give them even an inch.

Most likely the people that would say "Viva Fidel" in an anti-castro protest get paid for it.
I don't know if you guys remember but when Venezuela was undergoing elections some dude went up to the Venezuelans here is South Florida with signs favoring the idiot Chavez.
They showed it on TV and this guy is a professional instigator. I recognized him because I have seen him on campus here at FIU.
He has some organization called Bolivarian Youth which all they do is have fliers saying lies about the situation in Cuba and saying that Cuba is an example of paradise and blah blah blah revolution communism and any other deceit they can come up with.
According to some FIU staff I went to talk to, this organization is sponsored by FIU so they could parade themselves all they wanted and say all the lies they wanted.

So I am pretty sure that those instigators are paid by any of the two regimes. All they want is for you to get sent to jail and make themselves the victims. That's why I chose to ignore them and thankfully enough I haven't seen them on campus.

I'd write a piece on my blog criticising the Cubans and place an insulting "mob" graphic next to it to illustrate just how evil we spics are when we protest. ;-)

Well, if you wanna piss the guy off, start yelling Viva Batista, I suppose. Equally as idiotic but sure to piss everybody off.

Ziva,

Based on the reports and at least partially confirmed by video, the two groups were at opposite sides of the street from each other. After taunts and chants of Viva Fidel and the like, several from the Vigilia Mambisa crossed the street in the middle of traffic and directly confronted the pinhead commies. The pinheads started to run from the scene and were chased by some of the Vigilia guys.

Miguel Saavedra (leader of Vigilia) was seen throwing a megaphone at one of the reds and apparently hit the guy in the head. Some others attempted to open the door of the car of one of the pinheads as they attempted to drive away.

There were no injuries to speak of, and it appeared to disperse pretty fast. I don't know about police presence, but you would think that there had to be some there.

I'm sorry but I have to say it looked much worse for the pro-Posada guys than it did for the commie idiots who accomplished exactly what they wanted.

I know it's easier said than done, but I would try to remain focused, remain calm and not give in to a clear act of provocation. This individual is provoking you and expecting a predictable reaction. I would react by just looking at the person and crack a smile ... with a subtle shake of my head ... yes! Let the person wonder what I'm thinking ... that individual will be frustated by my reaction ... surely not the one expected. Therefore, the provocation is rendered futile.

I wish you well :) Melek

"Anger, if not restrained, is frequently more hurtful to us than the injury that provokes it." ~ Seneca

It is obvious that it was an instigation, it would be like telling Jews that Hitler was great. That is offensive to anyone. But the point I think should be is to learn who this people are, and if indeed they are getting paid and sponsored by the regime then it better show up in their income tax cause otherwise they go to jail.
Remember how Al Capone got caught.

The pro-Posada demonstrators could have (and should have) handled it better. The Bolivarianos were there only to cause trouble. If they didn't have a permit, the cops should have been called to remove them. That would have been the easiest and best way to handle it.

I know the situations are not comparable. Nevertheless, the pictures I have seen are indistinguisable from the pictures that circulated about a month ago from Havana were a pro-Castro mob chased and manhandled a number of peaceful dissidents. The small group of useful or paid idiots succeeded in creating very negative images. Sometimes pictures speak louder than words.

Bolivarianos 1, Vigilia Mambisa 0.

Where can I see the pictures??? Maybe I can recognize that dude that was instigating the Venezuelans in South Florida????

q,

Check out this link for video.

And here are some pictures

q,

I saw them on NBC6.net

Reventales la cara

thanks Robert, it was an obvious provocation.

The fact that there were only three people indicates that they were planning to run away.
Three people don not make a sign bigger than themselves and show up to a place where they are outnumbered to scream communist propaganda. Most likely they didn't even have a permit because it was only three people.

I couldn't recognize anyone cause it's too blurry but I have seen a blonde girl with the Bolivarian Youth liers and the leader of them looked like the guy in the red shirt but I am not 100% sure.

I think they should have called the cops.

Thanks Robert, I agree it would have been best if they'd kept their cool, because they just wound up looking bad. On the other hand, it's easy to say, but if someone is out cheering the tyrant who murdered a member of your family, and you consider yourself in a state of war with said tyrant exactly how do you control those feelings? We are after all human.

Allow me to revolver la mierda a bit. Why should we stand passively by when people who support the very devil that has killed, maimed, and disfigured, that has separated families, that has advocated the destruction of the US, is praised right in our face. Would Jews put up with that if faced with a Heil Hitlering crowd? I for one am all in favor of kicking their asses from here to Tuesday. And it's illustrative that in the story they ran away. Whether on purpose or out of fear I don't know, but they ran like the cowards they are. All this navel-gazing existential self-examination is hurting us. We need more ass-kicking and less hand-wringing.

Hmm. Maybe some icewater-loaded squirtguns would be in order, especially if it's cold.

George I agree with you, they got what they deserved but what we must realize is that it doesn't hurt them. On the contrary, they get paid for doing exactly that.

The only thing that hurts people like them who have no morals is money.

That is what we have to focus on. First, because it would be illegal if they were receiving funds from Castro or Chavez, and if they lied on the income tax then they can be sent to jail or deported.

Ziva and George...I know it's tough. Just thinking about facing those jerks would make my blood boil.

But look at it this way: we're right, they're wrong. Anyone who doesn't see that is delusional. The #1 thing assholes like that want to accomplish is to discredit us as a bunch of violent out of control lunatics. They want to drag us down with them.

As repulsive as the Bolivarianos are, we absolutely, positively CANNOT allow them to take us down with them.

We can kick their ass just by standing there and showing them what they know deep inside to be true.

sorry,this is in spanish..entiendo el punto de vista bastante gastadito ya de que.." debemos ser calmados,bla bla..que lo que ellos quieren es que nosotros actuemos violentamente para despues en la prensa salir nosotros como los extremistas,y los "malos" de la pelicula"...im sick of it..los cubanos en general,y principalmente los de miami..HAGAN LO QUE HAGAN,SE PORTEN BIEN,O MAL,SEAN VIOLENTOS O NO,RESPONDAN CON VIOLENCIA O NO,VAN A SER "CULPADOS" POR EL MSM,NO MATTER WHAT,por lo tanto..si yo hubiera estado por ahi..les hubiera lanzado el primer laton de basura por la cabeza..el megafono no se lo hubiera lanzado porque despues tengo que comprar otro...el msm es izquierdista/liberal,no les gustan los cubanos,porque nosotros no les causamos "lastima",no somos dependientes de su "welfare",no somos lameculos de los democratas en las elecciones,somos trabajadores,metecabezas,buscadores de vida,en fin,todo lo contrario que ellos desearian que fueramos,por lo tanto..STOP TRYING TO BE "NICE GUYS" FOR THE PRESS,,and be ALL YOU CAN BE...KICK ASS AND DONT WORRY ABOUT WHAT MSM IS GONNA SAY...

tony
To me the press is just liberal crap, so I really don't care about what they think.

But in this case, what we want really is not to have to see those people's faces again. To do that you just call the police. If they wanna mess around with freedom of speech then they better know that to be in this country you have to follow laws, and they were breaking the laws by being there so they get sent to jail.

Not to mention that Uncle Sam probably has many cuentas pendientes with these people.

George,

I have to disagree with you.

Robert is right on this one. By "kicking their ass" you are falling right into their trap.

No one is navel-gazing or wringing hands on this. Every post above which criticizes the "kick their ass" approach offers good alternatives: (1)no permit? call police get them arrested, impose fines. (2) identify them, so they can be held personally accountable within the law, (3)paid castro or chavez agent? investigate them and jail them, etc.

There are much more effective ways to deal with these idiots than chasing them down the street and bonking them with a megaphone. That approach offers instant gratification and would certainly be very satisfying, on a primeval level. Nevertheless, it is entirely counterproductive for the many many reasons that we all know about.

BTW, broadening the scope beyond this incident, and at the risk of sounding more liberal than I care to be, we Cubans have to learn to hash out our differences without bashing each other over the head. I know that we Cubans are very opinionated. "Yo se mas que tu, y no te atrevas a contradecirme." But, politically, that leads only to coup, counter-coup and revolution. It is not the touchstone of a politically mature people. If only for the sake of the future, we ought to try other methods. Practice makes perfect, and we aren't practicing democratic methods here. Not that talking to these idiots would do any good. That is not what I am suggesting. But there are other ways to deal with them, short of chasing them down the street.

But, that is another topic for another day.

Robert:

Since you missed it the first time, I'll post it again for your edification:

No Robert. An inch of rope is all they need to hang you. Never give them even an inch.

Manuel,

OK I'll bite. What exactly are you referring to?

What I saw on the video was a bunch of young thugs, in the service of Hugo Chávez and his beshitted friend, instigating a planned provocation against some elderly men who were more spry than the "Bolivarian" Youth gave them credit for.

Imagine yourself in Germany in the 1930s, witnessing a gang of elderly Jews being harrassed by the Hitler Youth — a scene that occurred thousands of times then. Who could in good conscience condemn the Jews for striking out against their tormentors? Who could in good conscience defend the Hitler Youth?

I should have put gang in quotation marks to denote the irony of young people (the Hitler Youth) attacking verbally a "gang" of elderly Jews.

Thank you Manuel. That's what is wrong with this country political correctness. The idea that all violence is bad. It is not, sometimes beating the crap out of someone is exactly what is required. No litigation, no diplomacy, just kick their asses and fight to win!

bueno gator..your words are full of "diplomacy" and democracy,i have to accept that point..but,during all history,the more "civilized" and "democratic" and "diplomatic" ones becomes,the more weak they become...examples in history are abundants,cause the "civilized",the "democrats",and "diplomats" are no strong enough when the "barbarians" attack..so...I LIKE TO BE A BARBARIAN,FOR THE BARBARIANS...AND A "DEMOCRAT" FOR THE DEMOCRATS...IN OTHER WORDS..me tiras piedras ..te tiro piedras mas grandes..me tiras flores..te tiro rosas...and i apologize for my "broken english",im doing my best and learning from you guys..im talking about the english...no the "democratic ways" to deal with those bastards..

Robert:

No one is baiting you. I thought that you understood, but obviously you don't, so let me spell it out for you.

Stop apologizing for your fellow Cuban-Americans. Nothing happened at the Posada demonstration that we need to be ashamed of or condemn.

Do you think that your sincerity matters to the enemy? Do you think that it will assuage them? Do you think that they will respect you? Do you think that they will make an exception of you when they don't make an exception of any other anti-Castro Cuban?

So I repeat and you will surely understand me now:

No Robert. An inch of rope is all they need to hang you. Never give them even an inch.

Fighting is necessary at times. That's very true. But there are appropriate times and places. I don't think the Bolivariano Youth last Friday was worth the effort.

We complain so much in this blog, rightfully so, about the bad spin the MSM gives us. But I can't help but think that if for once, we learned how to play the MSMs game and be more savvy instead of reactionary, we could get some positive publicity. Perhaps...just perhaps...we could then turn at least some of them over to our side.

"Reactionary," Robert? Et tu? This is not worth discussing any more with you.

Do you think that your sincerity matters to the enemy? Do you think that it will assuage them? Do you think that they will respect you? Do you think that they will make an exception of you when they don't make an exception of any other anti-Castro Cuban?

You are correct, Manuel. The enemy doesnt give a rats ass about our sincerity or anything else.

However those people whom we need to support us do care about our behavior and whether or not we live by the ideals of this country.

personally, I would like nothing better than to beat those BY pricks to bloody little pulps on the floor. But I am better than them. I am educated. I respect myself and the law. I can beat them into submission without swinging a single first fist because I KNOW I AM RIGHT.

You know what I would have done had I been at that rally? I would have calmly crossed the street and stood toe-to-toe with the biggest one of those pricks, stared him right in the eyes and gotten as close to his face as possible. And I would have stood there as long as it took for him to either shit in his pants, walk away or take a swing. And, had he swung first, he better have made sure he took me out, because if he didnt, he most certainly would have wished he had.

Manuel, at least si le vas a dar el sopapo que nadie te vea. Y dale bien duro pa' que mas nunca se atreva.

Because in this case it was a provocation funded and sponsored by the bastard communist regime. So the instigators made sure that they had cameras around and it is obvious that they had planned to run away, they wanted that reaction.

But what would have been more effective in this case is to call the police and send them to jail for violating the law. Eso se llama una galleta sin mano, and it would have been more effective plus it would have cost these provocateurs and their sponsors more money.

Robert, the MSM was not going to portray the Cubans in a good light no matter what. Don't you know? They were out protesting for a terrorist!! So nothing they could have done would have been portrayed positively. What should have happened is for someone younger to have been there with them and taken care of those thugs. Then next time, they won't be able to send three people out to harrass the Cubans, they will have to send in a larger crowd, and then it will be obvious who they are. Three can get by with the BS that it's spontaneous, or that they are doing all on their own, a crowd of bullies cannot. Maybe in Havana, not here.

Manuel,

I understand you now.

I don't know how many comments I've posted over at SotP explaining why a formal apology or condemnation isn't necessary. Surely you've read them all. I understand where the SotP guys are coming from, but I think they would feel differently if they were in our shoes.

Robert:

Never think that you are too "educated" to fight for your principles. Martí, Céspedes and Agramonte all had splendid educations. Yet they understood that you cannot reason against iniquity — you can only fight it.

Tony44,

First, there is no need to apologize.

Second, recent history gives us the US and England defeating the un-democratic Nazi barbarians. It gives us the US winning the "war" against the un-democratic Soviet Union. So, your point, while a good one, is not as clearly supported by history, as you might think.

We would have to go back 1700 years, to the decline of the Roman Empire, to find a clear cut example supporting your point. And that was no democracy.

But, the point is simpler, to live in a democracy, we must learn to act democratically. Bashing your opponent over the head with a megaphone doesn't quite cut it. Although, I do see the appeal in this case.

Manuel,

The reactionary comment wasn't meant directly at you, nor was it meant to offend anyone. It was stated in a general sense.

With all due respect, sometimes you need to take a deep breath sir.

Ziva,

There are plenty of opportunities to show our integrity and character. Val is 100% correct with his earlier comment. Next time, instead of 3 or 4 people fighting, there could be 3 or 4 hundred. Is that what we want? All this over a bunch of stupid snot-nosed pricks?

That's just it Robert, I don't think of them as snot nosed pricks but well organized communist activists, the police should have been more proactive and protected the protesters from harassment. I also agree with Val, let them strike the first blow.

Robert:

I wish that I could catch my breath, but in case you haven't noticed, I am besieged on all sides (though not here).

You were educated in this country, I presume, so it is understandable that you would adopt (without noticing it) the terminology of the left (e.g. "reactionary"). Thankfully, they didn't corrupt your Cuban heart, which is what matters.

gator..although romans were republic and triunvirate,and "dictatorship" all in differnts stages of their history,all i want is to make a point..and of course,i see u didnt get it..YES,WE ARE IN A DEMOCRACY,BUT..we have barbarians inside,so to combat those,just be worst than they are,if not..look back at those romans,or muslims when they were not democracies but very well developod as a civilization,or the persians,etc..they were invaded by mongolians,barbarians with no culture or education,o civilization,and they won,..cada cosa en su momento,y en su lugar..si tu quieres,sigue ofreciendo rosas al que te tire piedras..espero que tengas un buen seguro medico...

As for the three or four hundred, exactly what do you think would happen if three or four hundred pro-castro commies staged a protest on Calle Ocho?

I think there are two ways, uno es darle el sopapo que se merecen, which may not give the best consequences, y el otro es darle una galleta sin mano, which would be to call the police and get them all arrested, which is more effective and more costly to the instigators.
To me the second one would be the most beneficial.

I am reminded of a story my mother told me when I asked her what drove her to make the difficult decision to leave her beloved country and most of here family behind and come to the US. It had something to do about a mob of people chasing after she uttered an unfavorable opinion of the Revolution (this happened post Bay of Pigs, where passions were really inflamed, I'm afraid la vieja never had a great sense of timing). She packed the family up and left the country shortly thereafter. For years after, mom would tell anyone who asked her that she left because she wanted her kids be able to opine "cuando y como le dieran la gana y sin miedo".

I'd bet that a lot of the people chasing her also simply wanted to "kick ass" and that if asked why they did it would come up with all sorts of rationalizations. None, I'm also sure, would place much, if any, importance on that right of freedom of expression that mom held so dear.

Hence, I've always been leery of anyone who rationalizes away the stifling of any form of dissenting opinion/free speech or tries to justify it.

In Havana, one takes this kind of "let's kick ass" mentality, adds a bit of government sanctioning, and voila...you have an "acto de repudio"

I'd bet that most, if not all of the more responders to Val's question have criticized this behaviour...in Havana, or Guanabacoa, or Santiago, or.... It's too bad that some of them (not to mention some of the attendees on the pro-Posada side of the rally) seem to have no problem sanctioning/explaining/rationalizing what happened to the Bolivarian peckerheads in Miami, and worse, would actually take it a step further.

My dissenting $.02

(Note to the usual knee-jerkers: not only is it possible to not feel obligated to kick the ass of those one disagrees with but it is actually also absolutely possible to defend someone's right to spout w/o having a shred of sympathy or agreement for what they spout. So please, try to control the usual "commie", "pinko", charges. It's okay if you can't, though...it would look awfully hypocritical for me to try and stifle you)

Tribilin- free speech is one thing harassment is something else and from what I've read, (What I saw on the video was a bunch of young thugs, in the service of Hugo Chávez and his beshitted friend, instigating a planned provocation against some elderly men who were more spry than the "Bolivarian" Youth gave them credit for.) the police should have been more proactive. You can't expect someone to stand idly by while someone else is praising the tyrant who murdered your Father. The ACLU not withstanding, all speech is not equal, and there is a right and wrong here. I for one have no problem judging any defense of castro as hate speech that does not deserve public protection. We don't have to bend over and take what ever the enemy dishes out in the name of fairness.

I know this is a serious discussion, but that guy in the red-shirt has man-boobs!!! That was hilarious seeing him run away. What a loser.

I would've thrown an egg. Or a crow, so they can eat it.

On a more serious note - I do not know what would have been the proper response. I've dealt with these people time and time again. They're idiots, and really not worth a punch or a slap or a throwing of a megaphone. Unfortunately (or fortunately), emotions take over. Maybe the best action would have been what my friend does to drivers that piss her off - gives them a smile and a thumbs up. She claims people really blow up when she does that, esp the road ragers.

Old men should not have to fight young men especially when there are young men who can fight them. There must surely be at FIU (where the "Bolivarian" Youth have their covert) at least 3 young Cuban-Americans willing to take on these cowards who flee from old men. The fear of such a confrontation, at least, should make them more circumspect and less likely to harass our elderly in the future.

I KNOW THAT WE SHOULD MANTENER LA CALMA AND BE THE BETTER MAN. PERO NO! ME FAJO PARA LA PINGA CON EL DEGENERADO ESE.

Ziva..

You can't have a free, fair, and even a civil society w/o respecting the rights of others to voice their opinions, even if they are considered unfair or provocative or provocative or even "harassing".

It's also a two-way street.

If the scheduled rally had been called by, say, the Antonio Maceo Brigade to call for Posada's imprisonment, and a few Vigilia Mambisa had shown up across the street...would we condone AMB members chasing them off because AMB felt "harassed"? Or because the AMB crowd included someone who claimed to have lost a relative because of Posada? I wouldn't and I wouldn't want the government to either (for those who suggested the police should arrest the Bolivarian group), for it would mean that one form of speech is institutionally favored over another...which inevitably bring us closer to...well...part of what we all find so abhorrent about the current state of affairs in Cuba.

3bilin.

Let's not forget that the header on this post by Val was: "A hypothetical" !
Therefore, all suggestions should also be viewed as hypothetical ... and thus the different approaches to handling the "hypothetical situation". Also, many of us, who participate in this great blog do not reside in the Miami area and are not always aware of local events or issues ... I did not learn of the incident which may have motivated the post until Robert provided the links. Thanks!

I wish you well :) Melek

"It is a paradox of modern life that speech, although highly prized, enjoys its great protection in part because it is so often of no concern to anyone. To an alarming degree, tolerance depends not on principle, but on indifference." ~ H.K., Jr.

Manuel
I would not share a single word with those Bolivarian liars because they are simply not worth my time. In fact, apparently they have been ignored so much that they have vanished completely from campus.

But like I said, I think they are professional instigators so the only way to get rid of them is with the law and the police. We are not talking about free speech here, we are talking about free liars who are getting paid for promoting communist propaganda.

Free speech is speaking, but when you put a sign up that is bigger than a person with the intention of offending people and promoting lies it is simply not free speech. In fact, printing something that is a lie is called libel and it's a crime.

If the cuban-americans were required to have a permit, then the law applies to the instigators as well. So if the instigators violated the law by being there they should receive proper punishment.

Tribilin, harassment is not a free speech issue, it's a legal issue and it's against the law to harass people. I agree completely with free speech, even when it's offensive. I do however draw the line at incitement, harassment, and treason. There is a difference.

Ziva, the police definitely should have done a better job of controlling the situation. I don't know where the hell they were. They also bear some responsibility for what happened. Your point about harassing and assembling without a permit is well taken...there's free speech and there's keeping the peace.

That's why, as tough as it is to hold our emotions, we must try our best. Let the police take care of those who are breaking the law.

The answer to this is fairly simple: even in cases where these people are planted in protests by Castro himself, they are not there to upset you. They are there to get other people to see you upset.

That is the strategy. The objective on the other side is NOT to get on your nerves. If that was the case, they would be at your house, at your job, etc. No. They are there to get you to look like a loose cannon.

So when you react violently to verbal stupidity, not only are you acting unnecessarily, youy are also ensuring that the same group of assholes will be at the next demonstration. After all, it's mission accomplished. Anyone who thinks that the guy who was assaulted is disappointed of bummed about it just doesn't see the big picture.

If the "Bolivarian" Youth did not have a permit to demonstrate, then what they in fact did was to crash the Cuban demonstration. When someone crashes somebody else's party it is not unheard of for the hosts to unceremoniously show them the door.

Elcombillo, don't enemy agents have to register? I agree with Robert, the Miami PD dropped the ball. I live in Los Angeles, and we have protests and counter protests and the LAPD keeps the warring factions apart. I have personally seen small groups who have no other purpose than to provoke moved away. Incitement is not free speech either.

Given that the Miami PD dropped the ball:
Is the Miami PD's role to attack those who "crashed the party" as Manuel puts it? Or is the PD supposed to act in a civil manner and remove the violators?

Even if these people deserve to be beaten to a pulp (which I know didn't happen), you have missed my point. I don't care who dropped the ball, who didn't follow the demonstration protest permit procedure, etc. The fact is that in the end, "showing them the floor" comes to bit you in the ass, and you end up on the floor with them.

Some people need to get their priorities straight. If you want to keep "Bolivarians" and fidelistas and whoever else in line and give them a spoonful of your fist as justice, go ahead. Just know that it WILL end up slowing us ALL down in the cause that is being demonstrated for in the first place. It makes us look bad. It is detrimental not only to our dignity, but to our image, and that makes i nearly impossible to get people outside the exile community to listen to us for half a second.

elbombillo.

The police's responsibility is to remove the violators, not take sides.

As to the rest of your comment...agree 100%.

Just want to add something very general here. It's not about this particular incident, or even about protesting, but it's something I believe and that I thikn people should consider before they start talking about how sure they are that "kicking ass" is the way to go.

It may feel right to knock one of these guys out. Hell, I KNOW I would like the feeling if they were in my face. I don't want anyone to think that I see myself as "above" taking pleasure from the pain of people who offend the oppressed and defend the oppressors.

They may even DESERVE it.

But if we are the big, badass men that some of us are making ourselves out to be, then we should know that it is even BETTER to be a responsible, intelligent, big badass man who saves the badassery and ass-kickery for the moments when NOT fighting (physically) will slow the bigger, more important fight.

There is absolutely NO DENYING that the people who suffer from this kind of incident are the ones still starving for their freedom in Cuba.

We are their only free voices. We are their defenders. We are the only ones who can stand up for them without fear of retribution.

So PLEASE tell me how it helps THEM for us to be here getting into messes where we find ourselves arguing for our own respect and defending our own names, instead of spending that time arguing for THEIR FREEDOM.

Because I'm itching to know.

Ziva:

The "Bolivarian" Youth (and let us always put "Bolivarian" in quotations marks as not to offend the memory of The Liberator Simón Bolívar) are undoubtedly unregistered agents of influence of an enemy government. They may also be receiving monies and other assistance from terrorist groups in Venezuela or engaging in criminal activities in this country; and their legal status should certainly be looked into. It is still a legal requirement to state on immigration papers whether one is a member of the Communist Party or of any Communist front organization. Lying about such affiliation leads to automatic deportation. It is no surprise, then, that the "Bolivarian" Youth originally refused to press charges. They know that if they enter a police station they are not very likely ever to leave it as free men.

Manuel, that's what I thought, thank you.

I would knee him in the balls.

I'm encouraged. I step away for a few hours and come back to a discussion that has veered away from "lets kick their ass" to "lets use our heads and the existing laws" to fine them, jail them and deport them.

"Lets kick their ass" may be a quick fix, and they do deserve it. But is is counterproductive. I'm glad things have come around. Fining them, jailing them for violating the laws of this country and deporting them if they are found to be here illegally or agents of foreing interests is much more productive in the end, and we act and look smarter. Its a win/win.

Just to show how inclusive I really am of other's opinions, here's my solution: kick their ass, fine 'em, jail 'em and deport 'em.

BLOGS ARE FUNNY!

There you go, make everybody happy!

Ahem, my comment was directed at George's comment, not El Pingon.

El Pingon. Nice name. Can I assume that you named yourself that to compnesate for your inferiority complex?

Ziva writes: "Harassment is not a free speech issue, it's a legal issue and it's against the law to harass people."

I don't think, by any legal criteria that I know of, that flashing signs in some sort of counter-demonstration or in opposition to a gathering, is illegal, much less harassment.

If you live in Miami, you may recall that there was an anti Latin Grammy demonstration by the exile community. The city and the Grammy's wanted to prevent the demonstration from happening...didn't want all the stars to suffer from that dreaded harassment. Unconstitutional to do this...a compromise was worked out and the demonstration went on, albeit a distance from the entrance to the auditorium. Should we have not allowed that demonstration to take place?

I don't think so.

One other point...you can't cite legality on the one hand and ignore it on the other. If it all boils down to legal vs. illegal, I would suggest that assault or any other form of that "ass kicking" some espoused is, well, much more clearly illegal than "harassment" (mija..I can't even define what constitutes harassment. I have an aunt, for example, who is extremely sensitive and can't take a joke, another one however, can not only take a joke but dishes it back in spades...the first accuses her nieces and nephews of harassment, persecution, etc. anytime someone kids her about something, the other one...well...you might as well try and plow the ocean before she gets upset...i.e. its hard to define that harassment thing on the other hand a bocinazo el la cabeza is clearly assault).

Ziva says...."I agree completely with free speech, even when it's offensive. I do however draw the line at incitement, harassment, and treason. There is a difference."

See above about harassment and apply it to incitement. As to treason...very clearly defined AND expressing an opinion against the majority or even the government, is thankfully not included in the definition.

Now...if we're talking about en la Habana and not Little Havana..another story. They not only step on this fundamental right to dissent/speak freely, but they've even codified it.

Would you want something like the "ley de peligrosidad" to be the law of the land in the US (to keep those "traidores" in their place)? I wouldn't.

Tribilin, the fact that you can't even begin to "define" incitement is indicative of our difference of opinion. Regarding the demonstration if Miami, you said, "a compromise was worked out and the demonstration went on, albeit a distance from the entrance to the auditorium. Should we have not allowed that demonstration to take place?" I agree completely and that's why I lay the blame on the police. It was a volatile situation, and should have been contained. If the three counter-protesters were there illegally they should have been removed and prosecuted under the law. From the video, it is clear they were not there for legitimate protest but to provoke the Cubans. It appears they had a get-away car nearby. Likewise, if you read my very first comment I say I don't condone the violence. I do however understand it as a normal human reaction to provocation, one that I too am capable of. If someone was shouting Viva fidel across the street from me, you'd better believe I'd be in their face and I would accept responsibility for my actions. There is no postive outcome in this for the Cubans because they are already labeled as supporting a terrorist thanks to Cuban propaganda. If an elderly Holocaust survivor attacked someone yelling nazi slogans I doubt very seriously anyone would criticize him, and in fact it would be construed as hate speech. The fact that pro-castro, pro-che slogans are acceptable is an outrage. I understand your argument about free speech and really I mostly agree with you, but freedom, including speech comes with responsibility. To taunt elderly victims is wrong, and should be judged as so. And I have to ask this, which has been on my mind all day. Why and hell were these elderly people out there protesting by themselves?

In the old day's those stupid commie bastards would have been duck tapped and taken to the everglades(crock chum).How politically correct we have become that we allow fuckers like these flurish in our streets.I personally don't give a rats ass for comemierdas like that and I am sooo disapointed that these young shits were provoking our elders.Were has our morals gone too.

Ziva:

Although I believe that no people venerates the elderly more than do Cubans, and that Cubans, in general, make no distinction between the love they feel for their parents and the love they feel for their grandparents, the farther removed that each generation is from the crimes of Fidel Castro and the criminal state he created, the greater the difficulty in understanding the full depths of the suffering he caused, which neither time nor distance can mitigate. Doubtless the older generations have found it difficult to communicate the full extent of that suffering or have chosen not to burden future generations with it. This is further proof of the nobility of the generation whose dreams Castro crushed but whose spirit he could not reduce; but I am not sure that this was the wisest course. Hate can destroy but it can also purify when the thing hated affronts the human condition.

¨Doubtless the older generations have found it difficult to communicate the full extent of that suffering or have chosen not to burden future generations with it. This is further proof of the nobility of the generation whose dreams Castro crushed but whose spirit he could not reduce¨

Manuel, I know this to be true, and God Bless them all. They are the best of what Cuba lost thanks to the tyrant, and it is their testimony which must be preserved. that is the history that fidel has denied.

Why weren't any of these thugs arrested and charged? Surely the police have enough evidence?

It's interesting to see how the video shows once again, the exclusively white racial makeup of the pro-terrorism protestors.

They make your skin crawl, most especially that obese, big mouth lump of lard in the checkered shirt. I guess he would have been, what - some kind of torturer or secret policeman under Batista?

id be thankful that the united states is such an amazing and wonderful place that one is afforded the liberty and freedom to do just that.. i may not agree with what you are saying but will defend to the death your right to say it~voltaire

Maceo,

Youre teetering on a thin line.

Maceo, there is only one overweight white person to blame for the fact that so much of Cuba's overweight white population left Cuba.

And he's shitting into a bag or something right now.

Allow me to rephrase - "...to blame for the fact that Cuba's black population didn't think it would be a good idea to leave."

The face of hateful Caribbean white supremacy has a beard.

Masseo (let's not call him Maceo):

The man who introduced segregation and apartheid to Cuba was Fidel Castro.

Black radicals who fled to Cuba in the 1960s returned disillusioned: to a man they all proclaimed that not even in the Deep South had they ever seen anything to compare with the state-sponsored racism which they had experienced in Castro's Cuba.

Ironically, before the Revolution, American blacks always hailed Cuba as an example of a society that was free of institutionalized racism.

In fact, when the Americans occupied the island in 1898 and tried to shove down our throats segregation and Jim Crow, Cubans, true to the legacy of Martí and Maceo, resolutely resisted their imposition and won.

The two great pillars of our nationality, Antonio Maceo and José Martí, were one and the same when it came to matters of "race."

Martí rejected the fiction of "races." He knew that so minor and inconsequential a thing as pigmentation could not and should not define or divide people. Martí wrote that being a Cuban meant more than being black or white, which meant nothing at all.

Antonio Maceo, Cuba's greatest general, who fought more than a 1000 battles and never lost one, also abhorred the notion of "race." When someone once praised him as "the greatest black general since Hannibal," he immediately stopped him: "I am no less white than I am black because I am a Cuban."

A regime such as Castro's, which practices and foments racism, is the antithesis of the legacy of Cuba's founding fathers.

Manuel,

How about calling him mas aseo? Porque creo que el tambien esta lleno de mierda.

Firefly:

You've done it! Sheer genius. Even the name that he received in the baptisimal font is not more truly him than MásAseo. Beshitted like his master.

You need to look up the meaning of the word malice. Someone screaming at you is not malicious, just annoying. Goons who want to "kick ass" are no better than Castro the Thug.

This is America. Yelling "Viva Fidel" is free speech and we are ALL entitled to free speech because Miami is not communist Cuba. You may not like the message but you can't stifle it. A lot of people in Miami have trouble grasping that concept.

You are right, Val, to just stare these people down or yell "Viva Bush" at them twice as loud...

Hypothetically, what would you do if a woman held the hand of her five year old child while yelling "Viva Fidel!" in front of Versailles? Go beat her ass in front of her child for speaking/yelling her thoughts?

I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on the heavily Cuban-American populated school board spending $500,000 to appeal to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals a decision keeping on the library book shelves one Miami-Dade County Public Schools book that documents life in Cuba [Vamos a Cuba] for children in strictly non-political terms?

I will excuse myself from the get go for the long winded comment. First I owe my father a great deal of gratitude for not passing on his politics nor his difficult upbringing. Because of this, he has allowed me to forge my own thoughts and opinions, while we don't always agree I know he will honor and respect my ideals. I have always been keenly aware of my name and the implications some of my opinions may or may not have upon my family and because of this I have not always voiced them.

This thread however is pushing me to do so. It is difficult for me to criticize the "older generation" for their emotions and their behavior on Friday. However it was and is wrong. While I can understand their intentions, we as Cuban-Americans must ask ourselves why our cause isn't embraced by mainstream America. The answer is simple, we don't practice what we preach. And in true Cuban form, we quote the principals and laws of the US only when they benefit us. Our ability to debate is one of our greatest strengths but also a great weakness. Because of our stubbornness our message is lost. For this I take full responsibility, but I share it amongst my generation. I am 32 years old, born and educated in this country. Our elders fought for a free Cuba, and in their time a militant approach was appropriate. They showed the courage to do so, but that time is past. We live in different times and for a multitude of reasons violence is not the solution. My generation has failed the ones before us by not stepping up and using our knowledge of the system to spread our message and make it a priority to mainstream America.

The Cuban-American story is one of the most amazing immigration stories in US history. It is a story to be proud of, and surely one that would be admired and embraced by mainstream America. Today, that is our greatest weapon against Castro. But instead we allow the media to focus on our fiery and emotional argument and not our relevant and rational arguments.

We forget what got us to where we are today. When our grandparents and parents first came to this country, they didn't spend their time at "planned protest" or whining about the how the media portrayed them. The were men and women of action and they led by example. They took what wasn't offered to them and they built a world class city and secured National political clout.

Kicking ass isn't difficult but it is short sighted. While some of our grandparents may not agree with us, we have to show the same courage they did and take our cause to the next level. I think in the end they will respect us more.

Roly Masferrer

I suppose that you are the son of Rolando Masferrer, who could well be the patron saint of resistance to Castro. All who advocate the forcible overthrow of Fidel Castro are merely following in his footsteps. I think that his path was the correct one then and will always be the correct one. These old men who heroically uphold his legacy are also deserving of our admiration and respect. I think that it is admirable that your father let you follow your own path in life. I also believe that if he were alive today he would be standing with the men of Vigilia Martiana. Given his life and his ideals, where else would he be but in the last barridade?

Manuel, Rolando is actually my tio-abuelo. My grandfather was Kiki Masferrer, Rolando's brother. I will always admire his conviction as well as the old men that uphold his cause. It is however his legacy that makes me speak out. I am proud of my name and will defend it if necessary.

It is his very conviction that makes me speak out today. While he would most likely disagree with me, I feel suppressing my opinion goes against everything he stood for. That's why I wrote what I wrote.

Like the real one, Maceo has been the only one in this blog to stand for what's right. Reading the ignorant and cowardly remarks posted on this blog reminds me of how much trash is in this city and I thank to God every day that you guys are here in Miami and not in Cuba. For those of you who condone violence against student demonstrators, one day when you are the victim of a violent mob you'll be remembering what you wrote on this blog. What morale do any of you have to criticize the lack of free speech in Cuba when you support violent repression of free speech in Little Havana? To all those people who don't know but ignorantly comment that the Bolivarian Youth had no right to be there, you can ask the police or you can go read the constitution. You ignorant guzanitos, no permit was needed. If any of the Bolivarian Youthers would have hit any of those old fascist bastards they would have broken the life out of them.

First of all, it takes a lot of heart to do what they do on campus and to stand up against terrorism in front of that crowd. Shit- the witness against Posada found a pipe bomb under his car the day before and on the day of the attack against the Bolivarian Youth Posada's right hand man had just turned in a second cache of automatic weapons and explosives. These are true to life dangerous people. It takes even more heart to show the intelligence and restraint to just walk away. Look at the videos; their legal case is in the bag. Yes, the Cuban right wing is 99% white and there are some racist idiots that know nothing about Cuban history on this blog. The United States DID impose Jim Crow laws in Cuba that lasted until Batista's last day. It was the Cuban Revolution that ushered in a new period of equality and outlawed racism. Batista, who was not the true strong man in Cuba, just an imperialist puppet, was denied entry to the Havana country club because he was mulatto.

You'll be seeing us on campus soon enough. Who said we were defeated? We're winning, fools! And remember, be careful what you write and make sure that none of it can be interpreted as a threat. The Patriot Act is thoroughly observing you and you don't want to sound like you're supporting terrorists.

Machetazo:

So Batista, who was democratically elected president of Cuba in 1940, was a "mulatto"?

Imagine that! A man of color was elected president of Cuba 67 years ago by an electorate that was 77 percent white! How wonderfully colorblind Cuban society was then, and how far must Cuba travel to reach those heights again.

Your story about the country club, of course, is an old fable.

As for "the Cuban right being 99% white," I think you are describing the government of Fidel Castro, which is the closest thing to an all-white plutocracy since Botha's South Africa.

The American journalist, Edna Fergusson, in her book CUBA (Knopf, 1948) writes of race relations on the island:

"Now that the world is striving for a unity that will consider the good of all people everywhere--and what else can we do and survive?--Cuba stands ready to take her place with dignity in such a union. We recognize, at last, that safety is impossible for any of us without safety for all, regardless of race, color, or creed. For the first time in history there is no evading the dilemma this situation presents. Somehow human beings have to learn to live together in peace and fairness. Cuba, seeming so powerless among the mighty, is farther than most countries along the road toward a sensible and workable solution of this universal problem. Some Cubans worry lest we think of their country as a "Negro republic." They should instead be proud that they have so well avoided the crippling clumsiness in human dealing and the demeaning hypocrisy that afflicts those who cherish race prejudice. With few exceptions, the Cuban has the grace to retain his right to choose his friends and associates without denying any human right or dignity to another. Cuba again holds a key, this time to a much wider area than the Caribbean."

Machetazo, or should we say, "Machecomemierda"
While I don't think the best judgement was doing violently going after the Bolivarian thugs (although every one of them deserves it!)
your comments, such as calling us guzanbanitos, shows that your a COWARD. At least those thugs showed their faces. It's easy to be a 'bad-ass" behind a computer screen.
Now that you have shown that you are nothing more than a "red fascist" - what the hell are you doing here asshole? You are the ultimate hypocrite. FUCK YOU!

Machetazo

Tu eres un comemierda campana, eres tan tan tan tan pero tan comemierda

The US never imposed Jim Crow laws on Cuba, and guess what? the US has never been imperialistic simply because it has NEVER had an empire or colonies. Read the Dictionary.

The only terrorist here is Fidel Castro and his gang who would put bombs in movie theaters, in restaurants and in public places before 1959. They would also walk into hospitals a throw the food plates of the patients to the floor. That is terrorism, look it up in the Dictionary.

Moreover, Posada Carriles was found NOT GUILTY in a trial in Venezuela, so guess what, that makes you WRONG.

The only fascist here besides you is the Communist Government who denies Cubans their basic human rights and denies them the right to leave the country.

There are no political prisoners in the US and there have been many and there still are political prisoners in Cuba, not to mention the thousands of Cubans that were murdered in firings squads or jailed without a fair trial just because they disagreed with the communist ideology.

BTW putting propaganda is not considered free speech, it is not even speech at all, and you are the only one being racist against white people because there are many black people who are against Castro's communism and socialism, remember Dr. Oscar Elias Biscet, he is one of the political prisioners in Castro's gulag.

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